Gunslinger Way Damage

[StarlingSweeter]

So I have a new group starting up an extinction curse game this saturday and I want to play a gunslinger. Personally I love the idea of the Way of the Drifter. In and out of combat maneuvering sounds awesome. However looking at my damage numbers Im pretty dissapointed.

Since im restricted to 1H weapons (finesse for melee) both my gun and my sword are d6’s for damage. Since my main fantasy is obviously using my gun it feels wired that it only does 1d6+1 at the best of times. This feels like really low damage to me but I have never played a ranged character before.

On the other hand I was thinking maybe going a different way would be a better idea if I wanted to deal damage with guns? Something 2H like arquebus or dwarven scattergun whos flat bonuses make rolling feel good (though scatter at low levels feels like it could take out some party members).

Any tips on how I can improve my damage?

[egindar]

1d6+1 isn't terrible compared to, say, a composite shortbow. The bigger stopgap on early gunslinger damage is needing to Reload.

I'm not sure how Drifter shakes out on damage, since its Way-based Reload is another Strike, and being at melee range lets it flank more easily (and ranged attacks can benefit from flanking). But on the other hand, needing to move around eats into its actions, and Running Reload isn't available until level 4.

For 2-handed firearms, I'd say going arquebus (or jezail if you don't want to put points into Str) with Risky Reload and Running Reload is probably your best bet for maximizing damage and # of attacks.

[gesalt]

Damage at range looks kind of bad at first compared to melee but the way the game scales mitigates that gap over time.

You have two main routes to damage with guns (and only guns) from what I've seen. You can either go all in for a big fatal shot using the arquebus or jezail or use the harmona for steady damage.

My personal aversion to critfishing aside, it is very possible between the innate +2, fear (from an ally intimidate or bard preferably), status bonus (again, from an ally) and circumstance bonus (sniper aim feat or ally 1fA) and flat-footed (sniper reload letting you hide or something like invis) to get your hit/crit rate so high you just go crazy with giant fatal d12 attacks.

The alternative is the same as above but sticking to the d10 harmona. Higher level enemies being naturally less likely to be crit or not having all that party support will make landing crits (and therefore fatal) harder so the higher base damage makes regular hits better.

If you (and your gm) are open to reflavoring, my personal choice would be to reflavor repeating crossbows as 5 bullet revolvers and dual-wield them in either a xbow/xbow setup or slide pistol/xbow setup (requires a good frontline) with paired shots. The damage is still d6, but you get a lot of attacks at 0 map and the slide pistol is fatal for bigger crits.

[rayous brightblade]

its 1d6+1 on an normal hit but 2x(2d8+2) on a crit. And gunslinger have +2 to hit over all non fighter classes so you crit much more often. While deadly's extra weapon die doesn't get doubled fatal does so they are much more swingy on damage.

[egindar]

The Fatal die does not get doubled, as it's damage dependent on a critical hit. See here. But Fatal is still generally worth more than Deadly of the same value, since it also increases the size of the base weapon dice, which still get doubled.

[AlastarOG]

Overall I've found gunslinger damage to be very lackluster.

A level 1 fighter with a comp bow will severely outdamage them without ever needing to get any feats to enable his reload.

(14 Str 18 dex array starts you off at 1d8+1 with longbow or 1d6+3 with point blank s%@# and shortbow, swap into longbow when you get striking runes).

At later levels the fighter has the edge when their strength moves to 18 and they keep a solid +2 to damage on you (deadly d10 isn't as good as fatal but it's more reliable)

Altogether this would be minor in differences and justifiable if it wasn't for the reload economy. Everything gunslingers do is about reload economy. Risky reload, running reload, way reload.

Meanwhile archer fighter over there is busy getting double shot, triple shot, point blank shot and a bunch of other feats that make them be more effective, while you're standing there wondering how yours gonna be able to manage a simple strike attack next round.

So nice try but gunslinger for me is a hard pass, if I want to play ranged I'll go comet magus or archer fighter.

Or ranger with archer archetype, one of those !

[WWHsmackdown]

AlastarOG wrote:

Overall I've found gunslinger damage to be very lackluster.

A level 1 fighter with a comp bow will severely outdamage them without ever needing to get any feats to enable his reload.

(14 Str 18 dex array starts you off at 1d8+1 with longbow or 1d6+3 with point blank s~!! and shortbow, swap into longbow when you get striking runes).

At later levels the fighter has the edge when their strength moves to 18 and they keep a solid +2 to damage on you (deadly d10 isn't as good as fatal but it's more reliable)

Altogether this would be minor in differences and justifiable if it wasn't for the reload economy. Everything gunslingers do is about reload economy. Risky reload, running reload, way reload.

Meanwhile archer fighter over there is busy getting double shot, triple shot, point blank shot and a bunch of other feats that make them be more effective, while you're standing there wondering how yours gonna be able to manage a simple strike attack next round.

So nice try but gunslinger for me is a hard pass, if I want to play ranged I'll go comet magus or archer fighter.

Or ranger with archer archetype, one of those !

how much of a difference constitutes "very lackluster"?

[Kyrone]

Damage wise, ranged fighter can't reach the damage that gunslinger dish if the gunslinger is dual wielding.

Double Shot and Triple Shot of fighter don't increase the damage over just shooting twice btw (because of the -2 to hit that the shoots get), it needs that high level stance for that.

Kickback is the guns propulsive trait.

[AlastarOG]

Kickback gives +1 damage, yes gunslingers do get +1 to damage but overall it's underwhelming vs just a bow.

Triple shot is 3 shots at effective -2 vs other martials, double shot is the same but at effective -0.

Paired shot is nice but its maximum d6 damage.

[Amaya/Polaris]

There's a modification to bring Kickback up to 18 Strength and +2, since people get really obsessive about +1s to damage at a certain depth in optimization. It's just Propulsive that costs time and money.

[Ravingdork]

Abilities like Kickback have booster options at later levels, though I do agree it seems a little lackluster at low levels.

[Michael Sayre]

Ravingdork wrote:

Abilities like Kickback have booster options at later levels, though I do agree it seems a little lackluster at low levels.

Large bore modifications kick in at 5th level, meaning the +2 damage becomes available at the same time a fighter with 18 DEX and 16 STR can boost their STR to 18 for +2 from propulsive. The only time propulsive is going to do more than kickback is if you're not upgrading to large bore on the gunner or if you're playing a STR primary archer who's giving up a point of accuracy (which is worth more DPR than a single point of damage).

[AlastarOG]

Alfa/Polaris wrote:

There's a modification to bring Kickback up to 18 Strength and +2, since people get really obsessive about +1s to damage at a certain depth in optimization. It's just Propulsive that costs time and money.

What I like about propulsive is that it's propulsive that doesn't cost time and money.

[rayous brightblade]

egindar wrote:

The Fatal die does not get doubled, as it's damage dependent on a critical hit. See here. But Fatal is still generally worth more than Deadly of the same value, since it also increases the size of the base weapon dice, which still get doubled.

Well then that annoys me that deadly explicitly says that and fatal doesn't. If neither had said they don't double i would have checked the doubling rule but when one does and one doesn't your less likely to look at the general rule.