| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here is a short and rather shabby very biased handbook on one of my favourite classes in the game. I would really like some inputs and suggestions to make this a bit better so fling your criticism and (eventual) compliments my way.
Guide to the Ranger
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just a note about Animal Companions - If you get an Animal Companion from an archetype, it does not benefit from your hunter's edge. That means no reduced MAP, skill & AC bonus, or precision damage.
However, if you take Ranger Animal Companion at Level 1 & then Beastmaster Dedication at Level 2, you have access to two different companions for different situations that both are boosted by your hunter's edge. So I'd say that the Level 1 Animal Companion feat is still worth taking even if you intend to invest heavily in the Beastmaster archetype.
Did a quick read. I like what you write, don't agree with it all. Two main comments: 1) too many A's. There is not enough distinction. Example: two weapon flurry ranger can use a lot of weapons, but some really shine. Dogslicers and Sawtooth sabers are the best, shorswords are not bad, but not the best. 2) you value Legendary monster hunter very high for those who have the Master monster hunter. A lvl 16 feat for a +1 on one attack? I actually usually forget the first +1 already, and would never consider this feat on my melee flurry ranger with Max Wis/Nature and Master monster hunter.
Did a quick read. I like what you write, don't agree with it all. Two main comments: 1) too many A's. There is not enough distinction. Example: two weapon flurry ranger can use a lot of weapons, but some really shine. Dogslicers and Sawtooth sabers are the best, shorswords are not bad, but not the best. 2) you value Legendary monster hunter very high for those who have the Master monster hunter. A lvl 16 feat for a +1 on one attack? I actually usually forget the first +1 already, and would never consider this feat on my melee flurry ranger with Max Wis/Nature and Master monster hunter.
I could have swore that i gave Legendary Monster Hunter a B on all the line, imma fix it. However I would like to have to have you consider that a +1 bonus is rather nice when you consider the action economy behind it and this is almost for free. Circumstance bonuses to hit are also relatively hard to come by (everyone always forgetting about aid aparently xD) so i think it is pretty nice to have it for free on an action you are going to perform anyway.
As for the sabers, the equipment section is currently work in progress (so much equipment) and i covered only the most basic stuff for now. I still have to include all advanced weapons, worn and held items and if i have still some life in me, some good consumables like magic ammo. Thank you for the feedback sir!Just a note about Animal Companions - If you get an Animal Companion from an archetype, it does not benefit from your hunter's edge. That means no reduced MAP, skill & AC bonus, or precision damage.
However, if you take Ranger Animal Companion at Level 1 & then Beastmaster Dedication at Level 2, you have access to two different companions for different situations that both are boosted by your hunter's edge. So I'd say that the Level 1 Animal Companion feat is still worth taking even if you intend to invest heavily in the Beastmaster archetype.
-Fair point, i did not think about that. I suppose having the ranger use its own feats does have some justification then.
- ON THE OTHER HAND i sure did not know about this little thing. I think imma include a credi to you in the guide for this little combo, thank you!
Added the guide HERE.
With a bit more time on my hands:
General point: You like the ranger focus spells, they are all A. BUt if you want limited focus spells, which would you take? Animal feature stands out in my opinion. The others less so.
- Outwit is high with a B, C is better I think, as it's a bit circumstantial. Deception and Intimidation aren't natural for a ranger, as high WIS is more common than high CHA I think. RK is a nice bonus, but the AC vs your prey, as you mention already, doesn't stack with shield or other circumstances. And RK is very circumstantial, GM dependent.
- I would shorten the ancestry section, pick those that stand out, and refer to a more complete ancestry guide, for more details. Leave out what you don't consider to be interesting.
- Animal companions, the lvl 1 feat is interesting for precision (use AC for Attack to get the precision damage). Switch to Beastmaster gor the higher lvl feats after. For Flurry it's an F, Flurry wants to attack, only support actions which help are good for Flurry to spend actions on (like the bird, and get flanking), so the FLurry benefit will never help a Flurry ranger.
- Gravity weapon: Important as the first Focus spell. But very circumstancial again. Only first attack, status damage, so doesn't work with other status damage (Inspire Courage, Dread Marshal Aura, Stoke the heart). Rate C, I would say, mostly because it's needed for other Focus spells. Better for Precision/Outwit than for Flurry.
- Monster Hunter is bad. It only gets useful @10th lvl as a prereq for Master Monster hunter. A ranger will only have WIS probably, with the only skill they have is Nature, so little chance for good RK. Retraining into monster hunter @lvl 10 would be the best for this skill.
- Twin Parry: A for Flurry? It's probably just a +1 (no parry weapon) and it takes an action. WIth two very good feats at this level, this is certainly not an A. Flurry can use the action for that extra attack at MAP -4. Also it doesn't lead to twinned defense, that would have been the only plus I think.
- Additional recollection becomes useful after Master monster hunter. Before, not so much. If you take Duuble Prey, it also loses some value. Although... 4x Recall Knowledge in one hunt prey action... :-)
- Blind fight: A. By the time you can get it, it really helps.
- Wardens Boon: Good for precision, less so for flurry, until shared prey, and then mostly as a pre-req.
- Master monster hunter is S all around. A feat to build rangers around. All builds can use this. IF a table uses Recall Knowledge.
- Second Sting. Limited use, press, nice to have, but Double Prey is better. Impossible Flurry means no more secodn sting.
- Side by Side: A? It makes it easier to flank, but that makes it a B at most. But I mentioned before, too many A's. lvl 12: all A's.
- Improved Twin Riposte: Heavy cost, two feats for this extra reaction. I don't see the use of most of the lvl 16 feats. Lucky if you're a medic, you can take resuscitate.
- Level 18 header missing
- Caster/Druid archetype? Nah. If you go monster hunter, with high wis and Nature, it's a lot easier to use trick magic item for more spell use (scrolls, wands). Those few spells you want to use, can be used that way.
- Archetypes combat: Missing beastmaster (B), Marshal C, rangers usually no CHA char. Lots of A's again, where Medic really stands out, and Sentinel is very nice for str ranger.
Lots of remarks, but that is mostly because I also like the Ranger a lot... :-)
Added the guide HERE.
With a bit more time on my hands:
General point: You like the ranger focus spells, they are all A. BUt if you want limited focus spells, which would you take? Animal feature stands out in my opinion. The others less so.- Outwit is high with a B, C is better I think, as it's a bit circumstantial. Deception and Intimidation aren't natural for a ranger, as high WIS is more common than high CHA I think. RK is a nice bonus, but the AC vs your prey, as you mention already, doesn't stack with shield or other circumstances. And RK is very circumstantial, GM dependent.
- I would shorten the ancestry section, pick those that stand out, and refer to a more complete ancestry guide, for more details. Leave out what you don't consider to be interesting.
- Animal companions, the lvl 1 feat is interesting for precision (use AC for Attack to get the precision damage). Switch to Beastmaster gor the higher lvl feats after. For Flurry it's an F, Flurry wants to attack, only support actions which help are good for Flurry to spend actions on (like the bird, and get flanking), so the FLurry benefit will never help a Flurry ranger.
- Gravity weapon: Important as the first Focus spell. But very circumstancial again. Only first attack, status damage, so doesn't work with other status damage (Inspire Courage, Dread Marshal Aura, Stoke the heart). Rate C, I would say, mostly because it's needed for other Focus spells. Better for Precision/Outwit than for Flurry.
- Monster Hunter is bad. It only gets useful @10th lvl as a prereq for Master Monster hunter. A ranger will only have WIS probably, with the only skill they have is Nature, so little chance for good RK. Retraining into monster hunter @lvl 10 would be the best for this skill.
- Twin Parry: A for Flurry? It's probably just a +1 (no parry weapon) and it takes an action. WIth two very good feats at this level, this is certainly not an A. Flurry can use the action...
-I agree but you still have to wait for a bit before it becomes amazing so in my eyes it is not stellar when you first get it, that was my reasoning. I will give it a split vote.
-yeah, I come from a very generous RK DM so i see what you mean. I will give it a split ranking considering how willing to help your DM is.
-Good suggestion, I will see to it.
-True but the animal support can be worthwhile for flurry with something like the birb or the bear (or even the horse to better move around while using twin takedown) so it is not compleately worthless.
-Here I feel like I have to disagree. Inspire courage damage is almost never going to compare to gravity weapon (also because bards usually seem to prefer dirge) while the other two i still have to see. The damage however is really not negligible and it actually is just as good for every edge since it is a flat boost per round, it will be the same for a flurry and for a precision. Most of my vote comes from the fact that you just use an action to have it all combat long like a rage, wich is very nice in my opinion.
-True, I mostly gave it that vote because of master monster hunter, ill give it a C in general and a B in outwit and include a suggestion about retrain when you get to level 10.
-Fair, i did not think about the 4th attack, I shall change it.
-Yeah, that comes almost entirely from coolness xD
-Does it though? My fellows caters almost always had something for invisible enemies. I will take your word for it since I have a rather big party and my view could be skewed in this regard.
-Interesting, why do you think so? I always felt like a bonus to hit on the BSF second greatsword attack would be nice.
-Yeah, i was trying to be more grounded but there's nothing to do, S all around it is. Imma leave it splitted for every edge though because i want it to have three S grades xD
- Right, I will specify it.Double prey is absolutely better though, a B shall be fine.
-Yeah, maybe it is more like a B. I really went nuts on level 12 didn't I?
-Damn, I thought it triggered on a regular fail as well. C grade at best then.
-Fixed
-True, I forgot about TMI. For some reason I was still thinking it used CHA like in 1st edition. I will consider it, thank you.
-Yeah, that is WIP, a lot of archetpes are missing
Don't even mention it, I really appreciate the help and i am glad you like the ranger as well!
-True but the animal support can be worthwhile for flurry with something like the birb or the bear (or even the horse to better move around while using twin takedown) so it is not compleately worthless.
Flurry would use support mostly, for support you don't need the ranger version of AC, you can make do with the Beastmaster version. Saves a feat. I have beastmaster and use the Bird, as mentioned, just for support actions. I did consider wolf and attacking with the AC, but I'd rather attack with the ranger, just use support for the bleed and dazzled.
-Here I feel like I have to disagree. Inspire courage damage is almost never going to compare to gravity weapon (also because bards usually seem to prefer dirge) while the other two i still have to see. The damage however is really not negligible and it actually is just as good for every edge since it is a flat boost per round, it will be the same for a flurry and for a precision. Most of my vote comes from the fact that you just use an action to have it all combat long like a rage, which is very nice in my opinion.
How much damage would gravity weapon do? Only when you hit the first attack. At the cost of an action. That action could be spent for an attack (in case of flurry ranger), so detract that from the max amount of damage done by Gravity weapon. Plus, as mentioned, there are other sources of status damage. If Gravity weapon would have worked on the first HIT each round, it would have been worth it, but as is, It's mostly a prereq if you want other focus spells for the ranger.
- Wardens Boon: Good for precision, less so for flurry, until shared prey, and then mostly as a pre-req.-Interesting, why do you think so? I always felt like a bonus to hit on the BSF second greatsword attack would be nice.
Again, its an action to use the feat so for a Flurry ranger, that means a missed attack (s)he could have done. So its not much of a gain. Not bad, but I'd prefer Blind fight. Shared prey makes it so much easier.
I don't normally comment on Ranger guides because it really comes down to the subjective as opposed to the objective, but I will offer my thoughts.
I'm not sure if you were around for the Playtest, but the short version is that the Precision and Outwit Rangers were added after the Playtest and were never tested by the players = Paizo never got feedback on the balance of those Edges.
Based on a number of facts and analysis of the class, the Ranger was originally balanced around the Flurry Edge and that balance consisted of ways to chew up actions. Every action a Flurry Ranger spends that is not used to attack, reduces the Ranger's ability to leverage Flurry. When Precision was introduced, the class was not rebalanced (at least not from playtest feedback). The result is that Precision gets to avoid the inherent nerfing from the way the class was designed.
The best example of this is Hunter's Aim, but it also applies to several other archery feats. Another area where this manifests itself is with Animal Companions. As I believe Falco points out, a Flurry Ranger using a Companion has to give up attacks. A Precision Ranger is minimally impacted by this decision AND when a Ranger gets a Mature Companion that can attack (using its one free Action) on its own. that Companion gets the full benefit of Precision (against Prey) but gets nothing from Flurry and never will. A Flurry Ranger will always have to Command its animal to get the minimal benefit from Flurry.
Conversely, it's not clear that anything that impacts Precision is less impactful to Flurry. So it's a one-way street. Gravity Weapon, while seemingly neutral, is more potent with Hunter's Aim, and thus is more likely to both get cast and get realized with a Precision Ranger.
Edges aside, one other observation I've had is that the Ranger feat tree feels very disjointed and lacks cohesion. Many abilities seem to overlap and/or partially cancel each other out. An example is the Blind-fight+See the Unseen + Hunter's Vision. Each of...
Thanks for the analysis, i agree with pretty much everything you said. As for the feat choice yeah, i try to analyze them by themselves but it is true that level competition is a thing, mostly a good thing.
-exactly my reasoning, the precasting is still an option.
-I don't know about that, persistent damage is quite a doozy, sure, but i think that burning two action to end it could be a bit much. As for the healing i think medicine can cover that easily.
-Yes, definetly, I already changed it accordingly
-I made some math here and i found that shooting twice is usually more damage than hunter's aim. If you have a crossbow (or better yet a G U N) though it can be quite nice