The durability of humanoid beings in roll 20 has never made sense. Just don't think about it too much.
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I think that's their way of balancing mechs, considering they get hardness, regen shields, and generally more actions available.
Lol, was going to ask how often do you see wooden walls in high tech worlds, but your comparison does make the point valid.
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Shields that have fast-heal equal to their tier + being able to draw on their power core for 1d8 to 4d8 depending on tier seems like it might explain why they don't have too much HP.
What is odd is that a Tier 6 mech has lower hardness than a wooden wall and only slightly more HP.
Keep in mind that in order to destroy a 6 inch wooden wall (which is like, double thick barn planks or a wooden palisade ALA the wild west) you need to carve through the entire 10 foot area. You're going to be there a while.
To break or destroy a mech you only need to take out the most important part with the least amount of armor on it.. whatever that is. battery, CPU, the "knees" whatever.
He's definitely correct about the hit points on walls. A Kyokor in its description is able to wipeout entire city blocks in seconds, yet can't knock down a concrete wall in a couple of rounds. Most Nukes aren't knocking it down, either.
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Threads like this make me glad that I just wholesale ignore object damage rules.
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So interesting thing to note, low and mid level mechs can do more damage just falling on their opponents. A colossal object falling on you does 10d6 damage, reflex save for half. Do it from 30 feet and with a decent acrobatics check the mech only takes 1d6 damage itself.
At low levels, a mech can reasonably one a shot another mech doing this.
Mechs aren't objects for the purposes of that rule any more than a dragon is.
It literally says on page 112 of Tech Revolution in big, capital letters: "Mechs aren't objects"
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So interesting thing to note, low and mid level mechs can do more damage just falling on their opponents. A colossal object falling on you does 10d6 damage, reflex save for half. Do it from 30 feet and with a decent acrobatics check the mech only takes 1d6 damage itself.
At low levels, a mech can reasonably one a shot another mech doing this.
Mechs aren't objects for the purposes of that rule any more than a dragon is.
It literally says on page 112 of Tech Revolution in big, capital letters: "Mechs aren't objects"
No, what it says is "mechs do not count as objects for spells and abilities that affect objects.". Environmental damage rule are neither spells nor abilities.
How else would you determine the damage from a 200 ton mech falling on a person?
Via the Chunky Salsa Rule.
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So interesting thing to note, low and mid level mechs can do more damage just falling on their opponents. A colossal object falling on you does 10d6 damage, reflex save for half. Do it from 30 feet and with a decent acrobatics check the mech only takes 1d6 damage itself.
At low levels, a mech can reasonably one a shot another mech doing this.
Mechs aren't objects for the purposes of that rule any more than a dragon is.
It literally says on page 112 of Tech Revolution in big, capital letters: "Mechs aren't objects"
No, what it says is "mechs do not count as objects for spells and abilities that affect objects.". Environmental damage rule are neither spells nor abilities.
How else would you determine the damage from a 200 ton mech falling on a person?
Sounds like an oversight, to me. It doesn't make sense for a mech to fall on something and cause damage where as no other creature of similar size can do the same.
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Sounds like an oversight, to me. It doesn't make sense for a mech to fall on something and cause damage where as no other creature of similar size can do the same.
This. If a huge earth elemental can't do it, a huge mech can't do it. Same for a gargantuan creature or colossal creature vs. a gargantuan or colossal mech.
The dropped object rules being borked does not mean that anything not measuring up to the borked droped object rules is also borked. Who wants to play/watch the exhilerating story of mechs being dropped out of the back of cargo planes to land on stuff? UPS workers?
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For a cool 1 time entrance, I would think it was cool, seeing a rag tag group of resistance fighters being pinned down by an enemy squad, Mech drops in and squishes them would be a cool entrance (Either squad, I am not fussy). That being the go to tactic for every fight, no thanks.
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Who knew that all a colossal monster had to do to kill players wasn't to roll an attack for their bite, tailswipe, or claws, but to just sit on the party.
It's almost as if that was never the idea behind the falling object rules to begin with.
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Who knew that all a colossal monster had to do to kill players wasn't to roll an attack for their bite, tailswipe, or claws, but to just sit on the party.
It's almost as if that was never the idea behind the object rules to begin with.
I'm pretty sure with a running start most of them can get a 10 or 20 foot vertical.
Rocs fall, everyone dies.
The dropped object rules being borked does not mean that anything not measuring up to the borked droped object rules is also borked. Who wants to play/watch the exhilerating story of mechs being dropped out of the back of cargo planes to land on stuff? UPS workers?
I used to play with these two guys who's go-to tricks were, respectively, casting Mount to summon the horse as high in the air above a target as he could to drop the horse down & splat it on an enemy, or using dimension door to open a portal a few hundred feet above a target & throw a tree token through it to drop a full sized oak tree on them.
I don't think either worked for UPS but I haven't spoken to them in a few years.
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This is more what I was getting to.
Setting aside fall damage, its completely reasonable for a person in a 60 foot tall mech to look at the 3 foot tall enemy punching his feet and say "I step on the guy".
But if you go anywhere near that either the guy is likely to die or you are getting an absurd outcome.
And the reason dragons, many of which are bigger than mechs, haven't been able to do the same thing to the humans with class levels for 50 years is...?
This had always been a system about heroes: larger than life fantasy figures who do absurd things like punch out a dragon, wrestle a demon, or behead a vampire lord with a sharpened spoon. And yes, dismantle a mech while they are "merely" in power armor. Having a mech helps but it doesn't matter if the pilot inside is outclassed.
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I do recall introducing a former friend of mine to D&D/Pathfinder years go & he wanted to dm a section and have it based in his own setting based off a series of novels he's been writing for twenty years that'll never get released. He was certain that worms the size of houses would be able to overpower any adventurer on sheer mass alone. I had to point out to him that in Pathfinder, bholes were a thing.
That intuitive sense of how unassailable something truly colossal would be, partly due to how effortlessly it would swat anything human-sized, just isn't particularly well supported by the game.
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That intuitive sense of how unassailable something truly colossal would be, partly due to how effortlessly it would swat anything human-sized, just isn't particularly well supported by the game.
I think it does it fine, for the most part. Maybe they could've done more to make bigger enemies feel truly gigantic, but that's another issue.
Most gargantuan+ monsters are already higher level encounters. This is not an accident. Your everyday soldier, mercenary, adventurer, whatever, isn't going to be able to fight said monster head on because of the level disparity. However, when you tell the game to put a medium sized combatant in the same level bracket as the giant monster, that's exactly what you're going to get. This isn't a flaw of the game, this is the progression system simply doing its job.
If this interaction isn't what you're looking for, the best solution is to not put the game in this position to begin with. Your 15th level character isn't John McClane or Rambo, but closer to somebody like Thor or The Hulk from the MCU.
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To me it just seems fundamentally obvious that for an animate object, whether construct, mech, dragon, or Aboleth to try and inflict physical harm on something else, it requires an attack roll. Whether that's trying to pancake them (isn't this just called "Slam" in the stat blocks?) beneath their bulk, claw them, bite them, shoot them, or stab them. I have to roll an attack roll to hit objects and they're not even animate!
Saying "Gargantuan creatures fall, everyone dies" may win you a few favorites on a message board but I don't see how it is anywhere within the intention of the rules or liable to get your players to come back to the table for a second session.
Actually, dragons *can do this. They have a crush attack.
No dragon in Starfinder has a crush attack. I don't even think they have slam. Just bite, claw & tailswipe.
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Crush is an offensive ability , not a basic attack. Quick look on AoN and they have it
Crush is an offensive ability , not a basic attack. Quick look on AoN and they have it
Right, but its hardly the instakill the mech fans are looking for. You deal ok damage to the target and pin them, and which point they can full attack you back with a one handed weapon.
Levels/ cr/ Combat and damage is probably the biggest places the game diverges from reality. It's why sniping doesn't work (ow.. half my staminia points...!) No, it isn't consistent with reality but its very consistent with the rest of the system. The system works that way because reality would get your heroes very dead very quickly before they gained more than 2 levels.
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I wasn't agreeing with the 'Drop mech' tactic, just informing Leon about the ability.
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You can step on them, its resolved as an attack and does weapon or mech damage.
If the attack misses they got completely out of the way. If they survived the attack then you only crazed them , or you kicked up a rock and it hit them or they threw themselves to the ground so hard to get out of the way it hurt etc. The exact same way adventurers have been surviving being trampled by elephants or dragons or attacked by building sized tarrasques.
Do their ACs seem low to anyone else? Unless there is something I am missing, their AC seem to be around the same as a PC of roughly the same level. With enemy CRs being 3 higher, their ABs would be greater then what the PCs face so the Mechs get hit more often, with their general lower overall HP and that until you hit higher levels, the Hardness is effectively negated by the bump in CR, their durability is looking a bit poor. Only thing I see going for them is their shield regen, which against more then 1 opponent, its not great.
Or are my PCs just good at getting AC?