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To all those who want the option of Class stat boost going into WIS or INT in addition to CHA, would you ever choose CHA over INT or WIS ?I would if I were looking to be a Face for my party. I'm normally Scout, Face, or library in my party cause I'm not too concerned about dealing the most damage. So if I can martial but still be as strong in charisma as a caster I'd be happy (same with wisdom)
Edit: Forgot to add that I would also like EA to work with some charisma skills like intimidation and deception or something like that, so that no matter what KAS you still get four Main skills to boosted by EA.
Setting up EA with skills like Diplomacy, Deception, Intimidate or Perform actually feels really on point with the connections theme; Deception tricks the universe to accept the connection, Diplomacy persuades, Intimidate forces it, and Perform puts on a small ceremony.
I'm not sure I like the idea of them being dependent on even more skills though. That said, if we allow a substitution for one of these these in place of a magic skill for FF, and spin some mystical trappings on it (ex: you barter with the forces of the universe to give you insight onto your foe's weaknesses, or you tap in to the subtle ebb and flow until you find a weak point), it solves both the being spread too thin on skills (you just have to spike a single social skill), it still feels mystical, makes cha feel a little less shoehorned into FF/EA, and you'll still be good at at least one RK skill due to the free increases, so you'll still have that feeling of being a wonder worker
A good solution if allow chooses the key stat in order to balance is do what psychic do. Apply some drawbacks for wis or even int. But IMO is better to do each key attribute change how Find Flaws works this way we can have more options and versatility for class while balance between stats.
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I can go either way on KAS (Int or Cha; I don't really vibe with Wis for this class). Whichever way, or if multiple are an option, I do want it to be cohesive and justified, and feel like taking a mental KAS still provides me with a full package.
I want to see that ability score bonus matter for a bunch of things, set me off in a unique direction that someone else with an 18 isn't doing, and synergize with my implements and class feats. I don't want to wish I could pick Str or Dex as a KAS. Right now there's only really one thing that the Thaumaturge does that makes the Cha investment work, and even that has some flavor/mechanics wonkiness that feels a bit slapped on.
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I am now thinking of the Thaumaturge as the CHA-based Mystical Martial. And I think they should be centered on one of the 3 social skills. I leave Perform to the Bard.
I see this as 3 subclasses, one for each skill. Each would advance their skill automatically and each would use their skill for inflicting weakness in some way (Damage, AC penalty, free combat use of the skill, such as Feint, Demoralize, Bon Mot, with lasting effects ...).
And, similar to Druid orders, you could get feats from another subclass if you want to raise several CHA-skills and get appropriate mystical benefits.
A possibility to link CHA to Implements could be to make your subclass CHA-skill check to get even more out of your Implement. Maybe with a lower DC if the skill fits the Implement. Like, for example, Deception for Amulet, Intimidation for Weapon and Diplomacy for Chalice.
For the names of the subclasses, I was thinking Intimidation would be the domain of the Exorcist, Diplomacy that of the Bargainer and Deception that of the Inquisitor.
Open to change obviously ;-D
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I am now thinking of the Thaumaturge as the CHA-based Mystical Martial. And I think they should be centered on one of the 3 social skills. I leave Perform to the Bard.
I see this as 3 subclasses, one for each skill. Each would advance their skill automatically and each would use their skill for inflicting weakness in some way (Damage, AC penalty, free combat use of the skill, such as Feint, Demoralize, Bon Mot, with lasting effects ...).
And, similar to Druid orders, you could get feats from another subclass if you want to raise several CHA-skills and get appropriate mystical benefits.
A possibility to link CHA to Implements could be to make your subclass CHA-skill check to get even more out of your Implement. Maybe with a lower DC if the skill fits the Implement. Like, for example, Deception for Amulet, Intimidation for Weapon and Diplomacy for Chalice.
For the names of the subclasses, I was thinking Intimidation would be the domain of the Exorcist, Diplomacy that of the Bargainer and Deception that of the Inquisitor.
Open to change obviously ;-D
It seems to me that implements are the subclasses, though options I like Exorcist and Bargainer flavor wise, though Inquisitor does not really jive with the flavor of of the class (not to mention I'd much prefer to see that as it's own class) but keeping deception and calling it something else would be fine; Trickster comes to mind as a theme for such a subclass.
I disagree that perform should be excluded; dance is important to many spiritual practices, and the mechanics of this class support monks and shrine maidens tossing deadly demon slaying talismans as it does gothic horror werewolf and vampire hunters; and performing a kagura dance to call for the aid of a benevolent spirit to slay a devil is very much on point for the class.
The fact that Alchemist exists doesn't make Inventor less valid of a class, despite both being based on crafting, just as arcane witches impede on the uniqueness of either class. If anything, it's a good thing for these skills, which typically dont have much use on their own without class feats, to have access to more classes that expand how they are used