Carrying the Summoner's Eidolon while it attacks


Rules Discussion


My son started a Dragon Summoner during GenCon. He just informed me that he can't wait to get the level 8 Miniaturize feat so he can "carry his tiny dragon around and use it like a gun".

When I asked him what he meant, he replied that his character will hold his dragon and alternate using the Eidolon's Breath Weapon and the Ranged Combatant feat. Are there any rules (or penalties) for being carried while attacking? For example, could he Act Together to move his character while his Eidolon uses it's Breath Weapon and ranged attacks?

If not, I can think of a few other potential builds such as holding a Tiny Plant Eidolon while it uses its Tendril Strike attack.

Thanks in advance for any rules references or other comments.


There is the rules for riding sapient creatures.

Riding Sapient Creatures wrote:
Riding along on a sapient creature that isn't a minion requires a lot of coordination and timing. Both the riding creature and the mount regain only 2 actions at the start of their turns each round, as both the mount and the riding creature interfere with one another's actions. If you ride your eidolon, you reduce your total actions to 2 and continue to share actions normally—you don't reduce the number of actions twice.

Normally this is meant for the Summoner riding the Eidolon, not the other way around.

There is the Steed Form feat that removes those penalties. Again, this is intended to be used on the Eidolon to let it carry the Summoner.

I don't think it would be unbalanced to create a version of Steed Form that applies to the Summoner instead (It probably wouldn't be unbalanced to just allow it without any feat). Let that Summoner carry their Eidolon into battle.

The other thing to keep in mind is that with the Eidolon being tiny size, its melee reach is going to drop to 0. Wouldn't affect ranged attacks though.


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I miss the days when I didn't care about the rules and wanted to do something that looked cool in my head. The kid wants to use a dragon as a gun. He gets to carry a tiny dragon gun around. That's gonna be great.


Houngan wrote:

If not, I can think of a few other potential builds such as holding a Tiny Plant Eidolon while it uses its Tendril Strike attack.

Thanks in advance for any rules references or other comments.

Or take a construct eidolon that takes the form of a reconfigurable gun, or summonable gun-arm.


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Even in worst-case scenario with a really strict GM, the character will still end up with 3 actions each round because of Act Together. It is just going to be more limited than other characters regarding what can be done with those three actions.

The Summoner/Eidolon would officially have two actions each round, but Act Together would let either the Summoner or Eidolon do one more action.


Thank you all for your thoughts.

I would not have thought to equate the rules for riding an Eidolon to carrying one but it's something to think about.


This is an amazing idea and I love it.

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