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However unless you (as in everyone) know the reason for termination I don't think we should be passing judgement on Paizo for making a business decision they felt was appropriate.
In the face of at-will employment and lack of reasonable legal protections for employees - yes, actually, it falls on the colleagues and community to protect employees from abuse of power and also to pass judgement on the appropriateness of their business decisions.
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1) Paizo fired Sara Marie. That is not up for debate.
2) peopl have ALWAYS pointed out the problematic parts of fantasy, it’s not some new fad. Empathy wasn’t just invented yesterday. Just because it’s fantasy doesn’t give it crate Blanche to do whatever and be immune to consequences. How long have Drow been around? Oh you’re evil so your skin turns black and you have women in charge.
Telling yourself “everything was fine before you said something” over and over and getting defensive is a failing on your part, not on people pointing out issues and calling for change.
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Anyway, for people throwing a fit over this being cancel culture, it really isn't. What it has evolved into is a call for accountability and for better working conditions for Paizo Employees. Those interested in helping more can find the hashtag #PaizoAccountability on Twitter, where several former Paizo staffers, freelancers and community members have put together a list of demands, which are:
* Paizo needs to hire a whistleblower/arbitration company.
* Said company must investigate Sara Marie's wrongful termination.
* Executives need to be held accountable and investigated
* Executives need to enter good faith negotiations with their employees
* Salaries need to be posted and raised; some employees live below the median living wage in Seattle
These are requests put together by people who know Paizo and have or still do work with them. These aren't fantasies, they're fundamental requirements of the employees to fix this company. Myself and many other content creators like Jessica Redekop, Perram of Know Direction and Rise of the Rulelords have joined in in calling it; if you want things to be better, or maybe you just want to stop hearing about all this, then help us end it and email these fundamentals to customer.service@paizo.com and help make a change.
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it really isn't lol. Workers are being underpaid and abused in their workplace, demanding accountability and/or consequences from those responsible isn't cancel culture, especially after the president made an empty statement that meant nothing and indicated they had no concrete plans to change
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The recent departure of two long-time Paizo employees has generated a great deal of public discussion, including a series of accusations critical of the company’s management that range back several years. While Paizo cannot discuss personnel issues in public, we wish to strongly reaffirm the company’s commitment to the ideals of inclusiveness and diversity in gaming, both within our company and in the products we create.
From the day the company opened back in 2002 all the way to the present, POC and LGBTQIA+ contributors and staff have been a critical part of our creative and business operations, and our company has been at the forefront of these issues in the work we publish and the values we espouse.
We are committed to these values and work to do better every day, backed up by a tremendous staff at all levels of the company, all of whom share the values of inclusivity, diversity, and improvement. We are also working actively to listen to those employees and take additional steps to ensure that they feel their voices are being heard. By doing so, we believe we have become better now than we were 5 years ago, and that we will be better 5 years from now than we are today.
--Jeff
this statement is full of nothing but empty promises. What plans do you have to "do better every day"? What plans do you have to support the very employees you and your higher ups have been mistreating and taking advantage of? If you can't even answer that, then maybe you should step down and let someone else take your place. We don't want to hear your company values, we want action
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Aaron, I appreciate your perspective that canceling subscriptions ultimately hurt the people that keep the lights on, but the people who keep the lights on keep quitting or getting fired. Take some time to self reflect and realize people leave bad bosses, not bad jobs. How much longer are the execs going to let this continue before I see another Paizo talent accept a position at WotC?
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Those interested in helping more can find the hashtag #PaizoAccountability on Twitter, where several former Paizo staffers, freelancers and community members have put together a list of demands, which are:
* Paizo needs to hire a whistleblower/arbitration company.
* Said company must investigate Sara Marie's wrongful termination.
* Executives need to be held accountable and investigated
* Executives need to enter good faith negotiations with their employees
* Salaries need to be posted and raised; some employees live below the median living wage in Seattle
I love this list of "demands" and those like it. Does anyone even hear themselves over their pitchforks and torches? You've already made your decisions and these demands set forth the groundwork of "trial by the mob is complete".
* Paizo needs to hire a whistleblower/arbitration company.
A whistleblower/arbitration company you say? While it's clear, even by Paizo supporters, that there are management issues within, we've skipped the entire "hire a company to help investigate our corporate culture and have an external review of the concerns noted" and leaped right to "arbitration". Nothing says, "I have an opinion and it's right" then jumping past steps 1-9 and right to 10.
* Said company must investigate Sara Marie's wrongful termination.
It's clear that few here have had to actually let someone go. In my personal vacuum believe Sara's termination was a a poor decision; however, said termination being immediately classified as "wrongful" by a group of individuals who are not Sara or Paizo is ludicrous. Good people are terminated regularly for bad reasons. Good people are also terminated regularly for good reasons. Welcome to the real world of at will employment. Paizo owes us on both ethical and the legal front absolutely no commentary regarding Sara's firing - it is between Sara and Paizo. It may have been a good decision, it may have been a bad decision. And no, Diego's walk-out doesn't taint this, he is also a good employee that could have made a bad decision, or a good decision - we don't need to know which. Offer Sara solidarity over being fired because you like Sara, but that's where any of our involvement on the personnel issue should end.
* Executives need to be held accountable and investigated
Of course accountability in any organization is critical for the organizations function. Billion dollar industries exist to support this. As for investigation, for what? Are you going to be disappointed if the investigation doesn't include a bullet list of items from JP and Crystal? How about how? Do you need daily progress reports or is the demand going to get louder when an investigation (which can take years for some organizations) is quiet? How do you know that there isn't already an investigation underway? A lot of the claims involve personnel, are you asking for details on personnel records? What if the investigation is done and nothing happens because there's no wrongdoing found? If Jeff isn't immediately fired is everyone making these demands going to assume that the accountability investigation is flawed, or are you going to actually listen to somebody that comes in and doesn't say what you want them to say? Are you going to heft those pitchforks higher? You know what, why not simply ask for a seat on the board?
* Executives need to enter good faith negotiations with their employees
What does this mean? Negotiate for what? Salaries? Well that's the next point you make. Sounds like another open ended demand where you have the opportunity to move your goalpost when what you see isn't being done to me.
* Salaries need to be posted and raised; some employees live below the median living wage in Seattle
Aaah my favorite. We have a fundamental wage problem in America. Yelling loudly at a company clearly hasn't fixed it for decades, and isn't going to fix it here. Is underpaying your workers bad? Yes, but like all things the answer comes with an "it's complicated". I saw one person say "rehire Sara and Diego and give them more!" Okay, does that mean everybody else gets the more too? What about the need for more employees to cover the fact that it's clear Paizo has an under-staffing problem? Where does that money come from in what is universally known as a poor-profit industry? What about Paizo employees? How much of this should be put on them and the fact it's their job, or are you going to do all the negotiation for them? Do we get to figure out where the money for the investigation comes from before or after this? Every gamer loves to speak out of both sides of their mouths. "I need to cancel my subscription, it's become too expensive to maintain", followed by, "why don't you pay your employees enough." Living wage is a real and good goal, but a demand like this isn't simply going to move the boulder.
You might want to try backing up a step and looking at your own bias before jumping to your list of demanded solutions.
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Haha it seems like everybody just wants Jeff to admit to the accusations regardless of whether they are true or not. News flash everyone….the internet is not a court of law.
The demands for people to “step down” are particular entertaining to me.
Sure wish someone would jump on a forum and demand my boss to quit. I’m sure that would go real far…
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Haha it seems like everybody just wants Jeff to admit to the accusations regardless of whether they are true or not. News flash everyone….the internet is not a court of law.
The demands for people to “step down” are particular entertaining to me.
Sure wish someone would jump on a forum and demand my boss to quit. I’m sure that would go real far…
If your boss is abusing their employees, you and yours should unionize and force them to step down. It isn't just beloved games companies that need to change. Managers abuse workers. This is and has always been true because power dynamics. That doesn't mean the actions are always malicious, though they may be, but that doesn't detract from the harm they cause. That combined with "managers can fire workers but workers can't fire managers" leads to a cycle of abuse across all industries.
I will ALWAYS believe labor over management.
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I was waiting for a response from Paizo.
The response was given and I'd given myself a night to sleep on it.
I see that Aaron came in to clarify a few things, and again a misstep was taken in 'once again, we are asking for your money to keep the lights on' statement.
This morning I feel no different based on the statements given about Sara Marie's firing than I did when I first heard about it.
If you look at my profile I clearly state that no one at Paizo has the right to use my real life information. I never thought I would have to state that, and under different leadership I might not have to.
I have been asked again and again to give one more chance, because they will do 'better' in the future but every time I give that chance something like this happens. I have read both Buhlman's and Mona's responses and while they are lacking, they are honest and I respect that. I respect that you can't prove a negative, and I respect that Mona has always taken a stance against racism and has always been for inclusion. I can see that, and hear that. Although they spoke to the allegations I don't feel that they spoke to the heart of the message. Which is that people under them wanted to come to them for help and they failed. They both said, at different times, that they strive to make the workplace a better environment. I have heard from multiple employees that this is true and that is fantastic.
I just don't know if that is enough in this situation.
The issue at hand is that in Washington State there is a no fault employment termination law. Which means that an employer can fire you for no reason. If they give no reason then there is no way for you to sue them for wrongful termination. If they know they are doing wrong they will offer you a few thousand dollars to not speak ill of the company. With the fact that I haven't seen Sara Marie say anything I feel that this is likely what happened. Diego leaving on his own and speaking the same day tells me that this is even more likely.
What I am about to say is why I
1: Waited for a response
2: Feel the response is not enough
I have had interactions with the President of Paizo Jeff Alvarez on the forums repeatedly. Most of them have been very cordial. Some of them not.
One in particular is when he decided to Dox a fellow community member to try to intimidate them into submission under the guise that he was and I quote:
"I called you by your real name because I wanted to outline how serious we do take this and I don't want folks thinking they can hide behind the anonymity of the internet."
This is who is in charge. This is who is being accused of making an unsafe work environment. This is who at the top of this pyramid has the power over all of our personal information and the control over the employees and subordinates.
I waited for the response to see if he had changed in any viable manner and I was disapointed.
I am not currently cancelling my subscriptions, this is a personal choice and it may change. So far Paizo has not addressed the elephant in the room that caused all of this chaos. They are directing their comments to a lone twitter user who made many accusations, some of which were corroborated, some of which have been denied. But the heart of this is the accusation of a work environment that is, for lack of a better term, hostile toward employees who stand up for themselves.
Someone who will Dox customers is someone I can believe will foster an environment of submission in the work place. I'm sorry if you can't see it, or don't want to. But to me it is believable that Diego left because 2 managers were creating an environment untenable for him to exist in. I hope he finds a better paying job that will appreciate him. I hope Sara Marie has the best fortune because she has been the face of Paizo for me for as long as I can remember and she will be sorely missed.
Paizo created an inclusive product indicative of what their creatives envision. It is beautiful. It is wonderful. I want to support your company.
But there needs to be actions, not words. This isn't an "I will take my ball and go play somewhere else" because there is no world other than Golarion that I want to exist in.
For reference on the post of Jeff Alvarez that I gave him a pass on eventually because he redacted the users name. But mind you he did this twice and it took him a long time from the moment of being called out on it til the time he redacted it. It took him 13 days to remove the doxing. And when he did he did it with the justification that he still felt he was right. It took multiple people telling him that what he did was dangerous and if something happened to the people he doxed he could be charged with a crime for doxing them. Once he removd it another member came out of the wood work to say this wasn't the first time he had done it, and we found where he had doxed another member and let him know exactly where it was. He then redacted that post that had been up for over a year.
This is the person cultivating the workplace culture at Paizo. I wish it had been Erik Mona who was the Heir apparent, because while he allegedly may have felt he didn't have the power he needed to help employees, maybe if he was president things would have been different.
Read for yourselves, start here and feel free to go through until he acknowledges what he did was wrong. It isn't Pretty.
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgsr&page=10?Starfinder-Maste rclass-Miniatures-Partnership#472
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Oh Jesus, the Jeff stuff. Yeah this is not a good look for him at all.
Agreed that Tonya needs more scrutiny from the community and Management at this point considering everything going on that points to her.
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I think this is a prime example as to why some companies do not have such close an open relationships with their customer base. Sure, it’s one of the reasons why I think Paizo is so cool but all it takes is some tweets and then the customer base turns on you like a pack of rabid and wild dogs.
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All it takes are some substantiated tweets combined with the firing of an integral member of staff alongside an absolute joke of a response, you're right. Like what are people even mad about for?
The transphobia. In my case, it's the transphobia. I spent a large amount of my 20s going to bat for Paizo in one way or another. I'm a 4 star GM from Organized Play long long ago, and I own a huge amount of their content. All of that is poisoned now, if what Crystal said is true.