Laughing Shadow Magus in combat confuses me


Advice


I'm building a laughing shadow magus for a one shot/short adventure. I love the concept and flavor of the laughing shadow. High mobility striker teleporting and stabing folks, sounds great to me. But when I try to put all the pieces together I feel like I'm missing something, I'm not seeing an obvious combat flow.

Issue 1 - What am I even doing in my first round of combat.
round one for most classes is clear. The barbarian rages, strides and strikes. The monk takes his stance, strides and flurries. The laughing shadow though...I"m not sure. I want to get into arcane cascade asap for the speed and damage boost. Am I starting with Ray of frost and Arcane Cascade? is that my optimal choice here? arcane casecade says the previous action must be a spell, if I end my first turn casting a spell can I start turn 2 with arcane casecade?

Issue 2 - When should I be using dimensional assault.
If I start outside melee and use it to enter melee or start in melee and use it to gain flank and follow it with a spellstrike not only is my conflux spell no longer recharging my spellstrike but my spellstrike suffers MAP. Do I spellstrike first and then dimensional assault? my conflux spell just recharged my spellstrike sure but if I can spellstrike I don't need to teleport to strike again and now my dimensional assault is suffering MAP of -10. I'd be better off to save the focus point and just use the concentrate action described in spellstrike. Being able to teleport for a focus point from 1st level was what I loved most about the laughing shadow but I'm having trouble seeing it applied practically.

I need a laughing shadow combat for dummies book is what I need.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

It sounds like you are trying to do everything all in one round. Ain't no one got the actions fo' dat.

You are comparing the Magus (a complex class with both martial ability and spellcasting) to simple classes like Monk and Barbarian. So that is why the Magus feels the crunch of insufficient numbers of actions.

It seems like you have a good handle on the analysis and tradeoffs of the available choices. So probably just an adjustment in expectations is all that is needed. Realize that the 'optimal choice' is going to change dynamically based on the particular details of each round of combat.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

Stride + Spellstrike is the most common first round followed by by Dimensional Assault + Cascade on the second turn with an action to spare to do something else like the shield spell. If the target had a turn before you and adjacent, you can shield + cascade + strike though.

If you have a way to get low lvl slots like a ring of wizardry or a caster dedication, you can instead use the Jump spell + Cascade + Strike then follow up next turn with true strike + spellstrike.

But the stuff above is mostly white room or the battle is on your favor, if the target is too far or they did something to interrupt your turn or you got hurt badly you have to adapt to the situation.

Dimensional Assault is something interesting... it would be pretty powerful on any character on practice, but not on Magus because of the recharge mechanic makes that you want to use it after you spellstrike but you are already adjacent to the target now.

The lvl 10 feat kinda fixes that though, as it let you use it before spellstrike for an easy flatfooted or after it in the same turn to teleport to an ally and become invisible for a decent defensive tool.


Kyrone wrote:
Dimensional Assault is something interesting... it would be pretty powerful on any character on practice, but not on Magus because of the recharge mechanic makes that you want to use it after you spellstrike but you are already adjacent to the target now.

It is pretty powerful on a Magus too - as long as you aren't expecting to use both Dimensional Assault and Spellstrike on the same round.

The actual mechanical power of that focus spell is pretty good. One action to move half your speed without triggering reactions, and strike. Rogue's Mobility (level 2 feat) only gives you the first half of that. And Fighter's Shielded Stride (level 4 feat) also only gives you the first half of that and only after spending another action to raise your shield.

The cost of a focus point balances that. But adding the ability to make a Spellstrike on the same turn without any additional problems seems like it would be too powerful.


Magus focus spells incentivizes to use after you used spellstrike so you can recharge it (don't need to be the same turn), but if you did use spellstrike the turn before that means that you are already adjacent to the creature so the moving part will not be used often. It's basically the issue 2 that OP is having.

You can use to close in, but that means that the focus spell will likely not recharge your spellstrike as you didn't use it yet as you need to be on range to use spellstrike in the first place.


So my hesitation to start combat with stride and spellstrike is the lack of arcane cascade. I want that speed boost to the stride and damage boost to the spellstrike. Am I over valuing arcane cascade?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I think recharging your spellstrike is better seen as *something you can do* with your focus spells, not something you must always be using it for or else its a waste.

Some useful things to do with spellstrike.

-Moving into a flanking position against a large creature or creature with AOO

-freeing yourself from a grapple because its just a verbal component.

- Avoiding difficult terrain.

-


2 people marked this as a favorite.

If you're facing more than one foe, you can spellstrike one enemy with an effect that does persistent damage (acid arrow, shocking grasp, crit on produce flame, etc.) then in the next round teleport away to strike a new/weaker target and recharge your spellstrike while the persistent damage further weakens the initial enemy.

Or just accept that you spellstrike the first enemy you can safely and efficiently reach in the initial scrum, but on the second round you may want to teleport into a flank with an ally to more quickly finish off a different foe or to get out of being flanked as the fight develops.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I personally think that Ranged Cantrip + Arcane Cascade is a decent opening round. Although, Cast Shield + Arcane Cascade + Stride also works, setting you up with extra speed, the damage bonus, and extra defenses to respond to your enemy.


If you've got any buffs available then buff+cascade is a decent first round too.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Ranged cantrip + Arcane Cascade while the meatier characters run up and attract attention, setting you up for your flank on your next turn.

Sovereign Court

Jump + Cascade + Strike is also an option.


Kyrone wrote:
Magus focus spells incentivizes to use after you used spellstrike so you can recharge it (don't need to be the same turn), but if you did use spellstrike the turn before that means that you are already adjacent to the creature so the moving part will not be used often. It's basically the issue 2 that OP is having.

If you used Spellstrike on the previous turn it is very likely that you are now adjacent to a dead creature. Which may not be the most tactically optimal position. Being able to reposition, strike, and recharge Spellstrike with one action seems pretty good to me.

Grand Archive

From level 1-3, starting combat with Magic Weapon + Cascade makes the most sense to me. Aside from a ranged magus, from 5+, starting with Haste + Cascade makes the most sense to me.

Liberty's Edge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Have your trusted Barbarian friend throw you above the enemy.
Cast Feather Fall as a reaction once you start falling.
Use Arcane Cascade as your first action.
Use Spellstrike as your second and third actions.
End turn.

Sovereign Court

Arcane Cascade has

Quote:
Requirements You used your most recent action to Cast a Spell or make a Spellstrike.

It doesn't seem to require that the most recent action was this turn. Is it supposed to be? Because if not, we get a lot of options;

If your exploration activity was Detect Magic, would that qualify? What about "before my friend opens this suspicious door, I'll cast Shield"?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Raven Black wrote:

Have your trusted Barbarian friend throw you above the enemy.

Cast Feather Fall as a reaction once you start falling.
Use Arcane Cascade as your first action.
Use Spellstrike as your second and third actions.
End turn.

This routine also works really well with Bespell Weapon

Liberty's Edge

Found one where you do not even need your friendly Barbarian :

Call to arms thanks to MCD Oracle of Battle.
Arcane Cascade.
Spellstrike.

Come to think of it, you could get Bespell weapon later on and use it in rounds after the first while still being in Arcane Cascade. Thus stacking their effects.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advice / Laughing Shadow Magus in combat confuses me All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.