Spellheart clarification

[Subutai1]

Hi,

Just to make sure I understood the spellheart rules correctly, the way they are worded: "When casting a cantrip from a spellheart, you can use your own spell attack roll or spell DC if it’s higher."

Does that mean that all non-cantrip spells on a spellheart still have to use the indicated Spell Attacks and DCs? If that is indeed the case, then this makes all spells but the cantrips on spellhearts that rely on Spell Attacks or DCs pretty weak (most likely intentional).

Another question just to be sure: By getting a higher level spellheart, for example the Major Flaming Star, does this spellheart still include Produce Flame as a cantrip and can the better effect of said spellheart (d8 fire damage on weapons) be activated by casting said cantrip or do you have to cast either a 4th-level Fireball or Wall of Fire to get the better benefit? Basically, do both the lower level spells as well as activations carry over to the higher level versions of a spellheart?

[Ezekieru]

Your second question is somewhat answered via the last sentence regarding Crafting a spellheart:

"Crafting a spellheart requires the spells the spellheart can cast. For example, a major five-feather wreath requires air walk, gale blast, and wall of wind."

So yes, all versions come with the cantrip, and benefits from the higher spell attack/spell DC of the higher version.

As for the first question, that's the difficulty of using items any non-caster can use VS scrolls/wants/staves only spellcasters can use. But at least the bonuses from the Spellheart still occur so long as you Cast the Spell, so it really doesn't matter if the spell misses, so long as you can get that benefit from it.

[Subutai1]

Ezekieru wrote:

As for the first question, that's the difficulty of using items any non-caster can use VS scrolls/wants/staves only spellcasters can use. But at least the bonuses from the Spellheart still occur so long as you Cast the Spell, so it really doesn't matter if the spell misses, so long as you can get that benefit from it.

Giving non-casters those subpar DCs is fine, but the way the Spellheart rules are written, those DCs also apply to casters for all spells except cantrips, which is a hard sell for those higher level item versions of the Spellhearts.

Don't get me wrong, getting a cantrip such as Produce Flame for 55g with an added bonus on top of that is absolutely great and very much worth it. I just worry for the higher level versions that I just cannot justify the item price for, considering you not only cast lower level spells but also with a much worse, non-scaling DC on top of that.

The non-scaling DC is an issue many items have in the game by the way. Those items are useful for 2 levels at best and then are a waste of actions for the rest of the adventure path. So much potential lost with having fun items that scale with your level.

It looks like Paizo agreed at least partially and made the cantrips scale normally on Spellhearts. I believe this is the first time they did scaling DCs on items, so maybe they want to test the waters step by step before opening up more such options on items. At least I hope so.

[Ezekieru]

The higher-level versions also have increased value from the additional resistance for armor, or the additional damage they bring to the table (or the extra utility they bring for the air/water Spellhearts).

Also, the granted spells aren't that bad. Only the fire one's Fireball and the water one's Hydraulic Torrent and Aqueous Orb are gonna suffer a lot past 14th level. And both of those still offer something else (fire's Wall of Fire, water's Feet to Fins).

[Gisher]

These sound fun.

[Perpdepog]

Gisher wrote:

These sound fun.

They are. I'm anticipating them becoming very popular.

[CaffeinatedNinja]

Perpdepog wrote:

Gisher wrote:

These sound fun.

They are. I'm anticipating them becoming very popular.

Personally the fire one is very attractive for magus. As I read it, you can use it with a spellstrike, which adds fire damage to the spellstrike (as you cast the spell first) and then to attacks the next round.

[KOReldor]

So I'm still a bit confused. You activate it by casting the spell on the spellheart, but how long does the spellheart's effect last. And the wording on weapons is "After casting a spell of <<insert type>> by activating the <<spellheart>>... As I read it, either you have to cast that particular spell each turn to gain the listed bonus for just that turn OR you cast the spell one time and get the listed bonus whenever you cast another spell of that type.

[Cordell Kintner]

KOReldor wrote:

So I'm still a bit confused. You activate it by casting the spell on the spellheart, but how long does the spellheart's effect last. And the wording on weapons is "After casting a spell of <<insert type>> by activating the <<spellheart>>... As I read it, either you have to cast that particular spell each turn to gain the listed bonus for just that turn OR you cast the spell one time and get the listed bonus whenever you cast another spell of that type.

When affixed to Armor, you gain the bonus permanently. For example, a Flaming Star on your Armor gives you resistance 2 to fire.

If affixed to your Weapon, it says exactly how to trigger the bonus, in this case Activating the Spellheart to cast a spell with the Fire trait, and how long it will last, until the end of your next turn. All Spellhearts explain exactly how long the Weapon bonus lasts, and how to activate them, which is usually just casting any spell it can cast.

[Perpdepog]

Something else I realized, when casting a cantrip from a spellheart, does that cantrip use your proficiency?

Or put another way, does a spellheart, for all intents and purposes, effectively grant you the cantrip as if it were on your spell list?

I'm not seeing anything that says it doesn't, which has been good news for our oracle, who is life and worships Sarenrae, but really wanted a symbolic fire cantrip to fit their character, which they couldn't get from a Staff of Fire.

[graystone]

Perpdepog wrote:

Something else I realized, when casting a cantrip from a spellheart, does that cantrip use your proficiency?

Or put another way, does a spellheart, for all intents and purposes, effectively grant you the cantrip as if it were on your spell list?

I'm not seeing anything that says it doesn't, which has been good news for our oracle, who is life and worships Sarenrae, but really wanted a symbolic fire cantrip to fit their character, which they couldn't get from a Staff of Fire.

"When casting a cantrip from a spellheart, you can use your own spell attack roll or spell DC if it's higher."

[Perpdepog]

graystone wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Something else I realized, when casting a cantrip from a spellheart, does that cantrip use your proficiency?

Or put another way, does a spellheart, for all intents and purposes, effectively grant you the cantrip as if it were on your spell list?

I'm not seeing anything that says it doesn't, which has been good news for our oracle, who is life and worships Sarenrae, but really wanted a symbolic fire cantrip to fit their character, which they couldn't get from a Staff of Fire.

"When casting a cantrip from a spellheart, you can use your own spell attack roll or spell DC if it's higher."

That's what I was going off as well. I was just worried we were edging into "too good to be true" territory and got paranoid. Spellhearts really are all that and a bag of chips, though.

Who wants to bet on how long it will take all ye olde magick shops to run out of stock when we get a lightning-themed one and everyone can pick up Electric Arc?