Hi all.
Need help in calculating price of Workmann armor...
1) Official version price is 2.780 gp.
1000 gp is for +1 bonus.
10 gp is for Leather armor.
Help understand how calculate other 1770 gp...
2) And once more question - how much will cost Workman armor if it will Cure Moderate Wounds and what CL it wiil have?
I’m not finding any item called “workman armor.” Can you please provide a link?
There is also the cost of making the armor masterwork. Its a prerequisite for making a set of armor magical. 150 gp.
Many things can be made out of special materials, including weapons and armor. So check to if it is made out of any special material.
I also don't know what armor you are talking about. My searches get nothing.
Some magical properties are unique and have completely arbitrary costs associated with the effect. It may be impossible to reverse engineer the actual price.
But, to be fair, CLW is a 1st-level spell, and requires a CL 1...
CMW is a 2nd-level spell, and will require a CL 3...
Cure Moderate is roughly a 500% increase in price over CLW... a wand of CLW is 750gp, a wand of CMW is 4500gp... for reference.
The caster's shield is one example of a magic item that doesn't reverse engineer well. If you reverse engineer it and then try to reverse engineer the improved version, you will find the special effect left behind by the improved version is cheaper while still being more powerful.
Working backwards, pretty sure I found the item. Milanite Armor
10 gp - Leather Armor
150 gp - Masterwork
1000 gp - +1 enhancement bonus
1620 gp - Arbitrary amount chosen by item designer for CLW ability
The "deity-linked" items in Inner Sea Gods tend to be a bit more powerful than items of equivalent price, but they are also (deliberately) kept to very low level and very limited effects.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/workm an-s-armor/
Here is it.
Workman's armor
VoodistMonk wrote: Some magical properties are unique and have completely arbitrary costs associated with the effect. It may be impossible to reverse engineer the actual price.
But, to be fair, CLW is a 1st-level spell, and requires a CL 1...
CMW is a 2nd-level spell, and will require a CL 3...
Cure Moderate is roughly a 500% increase in price over CLW... a wand of CLW is 750gp, a wand of CMW is 4500gp... for reference.
You say about caster level of PC, but I've asked about CL of magic armor.
For workman's armor that cure light wound almost clear - its CL is 3, cause we take ench.bonus (1) multiplied by 3.
But what will be if I want to make "upgrade version" for my home game that will cure moderate wounds (or even critical wounds) - how much will have that armor and how to calculate it price?
Koraxs wrote: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/workm an-s-armor/
Here is it.
Workman's armor
Yeah, that is Milanite Armor.
D20pfsrd cannot use the proper names and other Intellectual Property of Paizo because they run their own store and are considered a commercial entity. They had to rename everything in their database that references Golarion places, people, deities, etc. You will not find Workman's Armor in any Paizo books. You will find Milanite armor in Inner Sea Gods.
Archives of Nethys doesn't have a store so they fall under the Community Use Policy, and can reprint Paizo's IP (like the deity name "Milani").
Koraxs wrote: But what will be if I want to make "upgrade version" for my home game that will cure moderate wounds (or even critical wounds) - how much will have that armor and how to calculate it price? As has been mentioned a few times upthread, there isn't a clear formula to answer your question. It's more art than science when it comes to customized abilities.
Inner Sea Gods page 250 wrote: For higher-level characters, remember that these armors can be upgraded like any other magic item by adding "plus equivalent" or "gp value" abilities, then paying the difference between the original item's price and the price of the item when upgraded with the additional special abilities. "plus equivalent" abilities means upgrading +1 to +2, or adding light fortification (a +1 equivalent) or similar. "gp value" means adding glamered (2,700 gp) or other fixed-cost abilities.
"Able to cast cure light wounds as a swift action once per day (on yourself or an adjacent ally when unconscious)" doesn't have a plus equivalent or a fixed gp value in a table. Inner Sea Gods doesn't consider that to be an upgradable special ability. We can work backwards and find out that the price on this item is 1620 gp. But that doesn't really let us separate out the costs of each part of the ability, so there's no definitive answer to your question.
If you want an opinion on how you should price this item if you want to make upgraded versions available in your home game, here's how I would value it:
-Magic Item Caster level is equivalent to the highest Caster Level property on it. Milanite Armor's Caster Level of 3 is set by the enhancement bonus of +1. (Caster Level for enhancement bonuses is 3x the enhancement bonus.)
-Minimum Caster Level for cure moderate wounds is 3, so that would not change the armor's CL.
-Minimum Caster Level for cure serious wounds is 5, so that would change the armor's CL to 5.
-cure moderate wounds costs 6 times as much as cure light wounds, It doesn't matter whether you are getting it in potion, wand, or scroll form, or buying it as a spellcasting service. It's 6 times as much.
-I would price a Milanite Armor able to cast cure moderate wounds by multiplying that 1620 by 6 and then adding the other costs back. So 1620*6+10+150+1000 = 10,880 gp.
-cure serious wounds costs 15 times as much as cure light wounds. So using the same formula 1620*15+10+150+100 = 24,560 gp.
-cure critical wounds costs 28 times as much as cure light wounds. 1620*28+10+150+1000 = 46,520 gp. CL 7.
Belafon wrote: Koraxs wrote: But what will be if I want to make "upgrade version" for my home game that will cure moderate wounds (or even critical wounds) - how much will have that armor and how to calculate it price? As has been mentioned a few times upthread, there isn't a clear formula to answer your question. It's more art than science when it comes to customized abilities.
Inner Sea Gods page 250 wrote: For higher-level characters, remember that these armors can be upgraded like any other magic item by adding "plus equivalent" or "gp value" abilities, then paying the difference between the original item's price and the price of the item when upgraded with the additional special abilities. "plus equivalent" abilities means upgrading +1 to +2, or adding light fortification (a +1 equivalent) or similar. "gp value" means adding glamered (2,700 gp) or other fixed-cost abilities.
"Able to cast cure light wounds as a swift action once per day (on yourself or an adjacent ally when unconscious)" doesn't have a plus equivalent or a fixed gp value in a table. Inner Sea Gods doesn't consider that to be an upgradable special ability. We can work backwards and find out that the price on this item is 1620 gp. But that doesn't really let us separate out the costs of each part of the ability, so there's no definitive answer to your question.
If you want an opinion on how you should price this item if you want to make upgraded versions available in your home game, here's how I would value it:
-Magic Item Caster level is equivalent to the highest Caster Level property on it. Milanite Armor's Caster Level of 3 is set by the enhancement bonus of +1. (Caster Level for enhancement bonuses is 3x the enhancement bonus.)
-Minimum Caster Level for cure moderate wounds is 3, so that would not change the armor's CL.
-Minimum Caster Level for cure serious wounds is 5, so that would change the armor's CL to 5.
-cure moderate wounds costs 6 times as much as cure... Thanks a lot)))
The other way to price things is to look at similar items and try to price your custom item similarly. Let's use the Talisman of Healing Power which automatically gives you a cure critical wounds if you fall below half hit points. The Greater version can be used once per day and costs 24,000 gp.
There are a few differences. The three major ones:
-The talisman is a neck slot item. Normally this would mean the CCW armor property should cost 1.5 times as much since it is added to another item. But you can actually wear up to three talismans (but no other items) in your neck slot, so I'm going to call this a wash on price.
-You can use the armor's healing on an adjacent ally instead of on yourself. I'm going to arbitrarily add that 1.5 multiplier back in. Why? Because that just seems about right.
-The armor triggers at 0 hp instead of half. That's good because you are less likely to use it up when you don't need it, then not have it available later in the day. That's bad because you can take a hit hard enough to drop you from above 0 to fully dead. Let's call it a wash as well. No price change.
So using this method a cure critical wounds Milanite armor would cost 24,000*1.5+10+150+1000=37,160 gp.
So what's the "right" price? Probably somewhere in the middle of that price and the first one I came up with. Call it 40,000 gp or 42,000 gp and move on. Don't get too hung up on trying to find the exact formulaically correct price.
Belafon wrote: Koraxs wrote: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/workm an-s-armor/
Here is it.
Workman's armor
Yeah, that is Milanite Armor.
D20pfsrd cannot use the proper names and other Intellectual Property of Paizo because they run their own store and are considered a commercial entity. They had to rename everything in their database that references Golarion places, people, deities, etc. You will not find Workman's Armor in any Paizo books. You will find Milanite armor in Inner Sea Gods.
Archives of Nethys doesn't have a store so they fall under the Community Use Policy, and can reprint Paizo's IP (like the deity name "Milani"). That explains the difficulty I had trying to find it.
Here the proper link on AoN:
Milanite Armor
Okay. Lets take this magic item apart.
2780 gp - 10 gp for leather armor - 150 gp for masterwork armor - 1000 gp for +1 armor = 1620 gp. So what remains is 1620 gp.
The effect you are getting is the ability to cast cure light wounds once per day, as a swift action if an ally falls unconscious, or for the armor to automatically use it on you if you fall unconscious. It has only 1 charge per day.
I tried poking around with the price and effect of a metamagic quicken rod, but what I got was way way more expensive.
A magic item with the ability to cast a 1st level spell (like cure light wounds) once per day is worth 400 gp. 1 * 1 * 2000 gp / 5 * 1 (charges per day) = 400 gp. So the power in question appears to cost considerably more (its 1620 gp). That assumes it was just cure light wounds effect. So the person who priced the item deems the special effect to be worth about 4x more.
OmniMage wrote: Okay. Lets take this magic item apart.
2780 gp - 10 gp for leather armor - 150 gp for masterwork armor - 1000 gp for +1 armor = 1620 gp. So what remains is 1620 gp.
The effect you are getting is the ability to cast cure light wounds once per day, as a swift action if an ally falls unconscious, or for the armor to automatically use it on you if you fall unconscious. It has only 1 charge per day.
I tried poking around with the price and effect of a metamagic quicken rod, but what I got was way way more expensive.
A magic item with the ability to cast a 1st level spell (like cure light wounds) once per day is worth 400 gp. 1 * 1 * 2000 gp / 5 * 1 (charges per day) = 400 gp. So the power in question appears to cost considerably more (its 1620 gp). That assumes it was just cure light wounds effect. So the person who priced the item deems the special effect to be worth about 4x more.
So I understand right, that by rules armor with cure light wound effect 1/per day must be divided by 4?
Maybe that price that Workman's armour have is higher cause this is triggering by special situation item?
The price is arbitrary. There is no formula to reverse engineer. The developer of that particular set of armor pulled the 1620gp number out of their @$$.
Belafon's breakdown is probably the most logical way to extrapolate any sort of price projection beyond what is given:
"... If you want an opinion on how you should price this item if you want to make upgraded versions available in your home game, here's how I would value it:
-Magic Item Caster level is equivalent to the highest Caster Level property on it. Milanite Armor's Caster Level of 3 is set by the enhancement bonus of +1. (Caster Level for enhancement bonuses is 3x the enhancement bonus.)
-Minimum Caster Level for cure moderate wounds is 3, so that would not change the armor's CL.
-Minimum Caster Level for cure serious wounds is 5, so that would change the armor's CL to 5.
-cure moderate wounds costs 6 times as much as cure light wounds, It doesn't matter whether you are getting it in potion, wand, or scroll form, or buying it as a spellcasting service. It's 6 times as much.
-I would price a Milanite Armor able to cast cure moderate wounds by multiplying that 1620 by 6 and then adding the other costs back. So 1620*6+10+150+1000 = 10,880 gp.
-cure serious wounds costs 15 times as much as cure light wounds. So using the same formula 1620*15+10+150+100 = 24,560 gp.
-cure critical wounds costs 28 times as much as cure light wounds. 1620*28+10+150+1000 = 46,520 gp. CL 7..."
You could argue that you could use the estimating gold piece values table to say that "ordinarily" a CLW at CL 3 once per day would be valued at 1 (spell level) * 3 (caster level) * 2000 (use-activated/continuous) = 6000 gp that is then divided by (5/1) for 1200.
Then you could divide 1620 by that 1200 to discover that there is a 1.35x multiplier, which is pretty close to costing 1/3 more, presumably for the fact that it can be used to auto-revive yourself if you get downed and the other unusual things about how it is activated.
This is probably a coincidence, though.
Still, if I was going to do what you want to do at all, applying a 1.35x multiplier to the cost of a 1/day item that casts whatever spell you're looking for seems reasonable-ish enough. At least off the cuff, anyway.
Quote: 2) And once more question - how much will cost Workman armor if it will Cure Moderate Wounds and what CL it wiil have? So if I was going to do things this way, Cure Moderate Wounds is a 2nd level spell and a caster level of 3 works just fine with it. So 2 * 3 * 2000 = 12,000. 12,000 / 5 = 2400. 2400 * 1.35 = 3240. 3240 - 1620 = 1620.
So it would increase the cost by 1620 gp to a total of 3240 under such a schema. Is that too much or too little for what amounts to a single extra 1d8 of healing?
I honestly could go either way.
For completeness, Cure Serious Wounds would be CL 5, resulting in 8100 gp. Cure Critical Wounds would be CL 7, resulting in 15,120 gp. Breath of Life would be CL 9, resulting in 24,300 gp.
Koraxs wrote: So I understand right, that by rules armor with cure light wound effect 1/per day must be divided by 4? Dividing by 4 is the opposite of what I said. I said the cost found in the armor is priced 4 times as much as it would cost for a magic item with 1 charge per day. I'm assuming that the price increase is for using the spell as a swift action or use on yourself automatically (normally it would be a standard action). Reverse engineering magic items can be a messy business.
Cure Moderate wounds cost 6 times as much as cure light wounds.
1 (spell level) * 1 (caster level) vs 2 (spell level) * 3 (caster level).
VoodistMonk wrote: The price is arbitrary. There is no formula to reverse engineer. The developer of that particular set of armor pulled the 1620gp number out of their @$$. To put it more politely, the price is a bit arbitrary. The numbers used are what the designer thought looked good enough.
Coidzor wrote: You could argue that you could use the estimating gold piece values table to say that "ordinarily" a CLW at CL 3 once per day would be valued at 1 (spell level) * 3 (caster level) * 2000 (use-activated/continuous) = 6000 gp that is then divided by (5/1) for 1200. I hadn't considered the spell in the item could be caster level 3. I just assumed a caster level of 1 because you usually make magic items using the lowest caster level possible.
OmniMage wrote: I hadn't considered the spell in the item could be caster level 3. I just assumed a caster level of 1 because you usually make magic items using the lowest caster level possible. The item has a listed CL of 3 and doesn't specify the amount healed, so I think you could go either way. Using the item's CL for the spell effect feels better to me, though.
A 1.35x modifier also seems a little more reasonable than 4x when you can't use it at-will, only when someone gets dropped, and the amount of damage it heals very likely could be insufficient to prevent death, even at low levels.
Not the most solid of justifications, though, admittedly.
Thanks all for your answers!)))
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