Using Divination to Enable Distant Attacks with Spectral Hand?


Rules Questions


As in the title. I'm GMing a game with a 14th level necromancer as a boss in a dungeon. He has telepathic bonds with his undead minions. The distance through the whole area is no more than 240 feet (within medium range) of the boss, though there are many rooms.

Since actual combat doesn't last particularly long at this level, I figured that I should have the necromancer try to burn some of his lower level spells before the PCs meet him, assisting the necromancer's minions. It gives more of a sense that the powerful wizard is at least using his resources effectively.

Spectral Hand + Divination seems like a good way to do this, but I'm trying to work out the mechanics.

Spectral Hand creates an incorporeal hand. This would allow it to move through walls. Since the spells it uses are touch attacks, it would seem reasonable that a spectral hand could go through walls and make attacks against opponents on the other side of the wall, so long as the caster has vision of the target. It can only be used to transfer 4th level spells or lower.

Can anyone point to a rule that states otherwise?

Continuing based on the assumption that the necromancer can make attacks with the spectral hand through walls if he can see the target, what are your thoughts on the following spells to offer sight?

Telepathic bonds to minions (transmitting an image of what they are seeing)?
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance?
Greater Insect Spies?
Scrying?
Greater Scrying?
Arcane Eye?

Any other spells you can think of?


I can see a few potential problems but as always, things may be up to interpretation :

1. Which Divination Spell are you using to follow the Spectral Hand? Focusing on the Enemy/a minion as the Target does not give you the co-ordinates/direction to send your Spectral Hand towards, just a picture of the Target as restricted by the Spell. Telepathic Bond does not do what you suggest.

Spells:

I am going to cover as many relevant Divination Spells for coverage - they may be higher level than you want but Insect Spies, Greater is a [6/7] Spell, so ...

Arcane Eye
'You can create the arcane eye at any point you can see, but it can then travel outside your line of sight without hindrance.' - Yay!
'An arcane eye travels at 30 feet per round (300 feet per minute) if viewing an area ahead as a human would (primarily looking at the floor) or 10 feet per round (100 feet per minute) if examining the ceiling and walls as well as the floor ahead. It sees exactly as you would see if you were there.' - Yay!
'The eye can travel in any direction as long as the spell lasts. Solid barriers block its passage, but it can pass through a hole or space as small as 1 inch in diameter.' - Oh.
- Needs a hole in the wall or to have travelled along open passageways between your N.P.C. and the Enemy P.C.s.

Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
'Clairaudience/clairvoyance creates an invisible magical sensor at a specific location that enables you to hear or see (your choice) almost as if you were there. You don't need line of sight or line of effect, but the locale must be known—a place familiar to you, or an obvious one. Once you have selected the locale, the sensor doesn't move, but you can rotate it in all directions to view the area as desired. Unlike other scrying spells, this spell does not allow magically or supernaturally enhanced senses to work through it. If the chosen locale is magically dark, you see nothing. If it is naturally pitch black, you can see in a 10-foot radius around the center of the spell's effect.'

Insect Spies and Insect Spies, Greater
'An insect in physical contact with you can answer simple questions about what it has observed ...'
- The base Spell is useless for this as the insects have to leave, (through holes/open passageways), and then return to give you any information.
'As insect spies, but you can also borrow the senses of the summoned insects. As a move action, you can choose to receive sensory input from one of the insects ...'
- Now you can see, but still have no exact distance/direction from where you are to identify an Enemy square. You also still need a hole/open passageway.

Prying Eyes and Prying Eyes, Greater
'While the individual eyes are quite fragile, they're small and difficult to spot. Each eye is a Fine construct ...'
'Of course, if an eye is sent into darkness, it could hit a wall or similar obstacle and destroy itself.'

Questing Stone
'This spell functions like arcane eye, except that it uses an ioun stone as a visible scrying sensor. The ioun stone moves at the same rate as an arcane eye, and may pass through holes or spaces as small as 2 inches in diameter.'
- Needs a hole or open passageway; is not invisible like magical sensors.
Divination
'Scrying: A scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information.'
'A creature can notice the sensor by making a Perception check with a DC 20 + the spell level. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.'

Scrying and Scrying, Greater
'You can observe a creature at any distance.' - Target Creature specific, so it would depend on your Knowledge/Connection.
'If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and its surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject). If the subject moves, the sensor follows at a speed of up to 150 feet.'
- Your Necromancer would need to be able to identify where the Target is and the exact distance/position from where they are to send the Spectral Hand to the correct square.

See Through Stone
'You gain the ability to see through solid rock as if it were transparent glass. You may see through 1 foot of stone per caster level. You see within the stone as if you were looking at the area in normal light, even if there is no illumination, though low-light vision and darkvision have no effect on your ability to see through stone. Metal at least 1 inch thick or wood or dirt at least 3 feet thick blocks your vision.

The spell does not negate concealment for those creatures hiding behind stone objects (the stone is still an obstacle to your attacks).'
- You can see through the stone to your Targets, so you can easily direct your Spectral Hand to them. However, this is a Druid/Hunter/Ranger Spell ...

Spherescry
'Target sphere of annihilation'
'The caster can view and listen to events within a 20-foot radius of the associated sphere ...'
- You can see Enemies within 20ft. of the Spell Target and if your N.P.C. is clever they could have pre-judged the distance/direction from their specific square, (a skull throne?). However, you require a Sphere of Annihilation and P.C.S. willing to stay near it ...

Symbol of Scrying
'... it creates a scrying sensor linked to you and centered on the symbol ... You may observe the area through the symbol as if using a scrying spell with the sensor as the target creature.'
''If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and its surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject).'
- You can see Enemies within 10ft. of the Spell Target and if your N.P.C. is clever they could have pre-judged the distance/direction from their specific square, (a skull throne?). However, you require a visible symbol that rthe P.C.s can see and are willing to stay near ...

Telepathic Bond
'The creatures can communicate telepathically through the bond regardless of language.'
Universal monster Rules : Teleptahy (Su)
'A creature with this ability can mentally communicate with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature’s entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.

Format: telepathy 100 ft.
Location: Languages.'
- No reference to mental imagery, simply having a conversation despite language barriers and references the Language statblock location.

Vicarious View
'You plant a scrying sensor on a touched creature, object, or point in space, allowing you to see and hear the creature, object, or point and its surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions).'
- The same as previous, you would have to know the previse distance/location to an Object to send the Spectral Hand there.

Watchful Animal
'You place a scrying sensor on your animal companion or familiar. This allows the animal companion or familiar to function as if it were an insect summoned by the greater insect spy spell.'
'... you can sense its direction and distance and receive sensory input from it as with that spell.'
- It requires sending out a Familiar (or Animal Companion), however, it gives you the direction/distance of it to judge close Enemies from.

Witness
'You link your senses to the target, allowing you to see and hear through its eyes and ears. As a move action you can shift your senses from yourself to the target or back again. When using the target’s senses, you are blind and deaf.'
- It requires sending out a Creature, however, you would have to know the previse distance/location to an Object to send the Spectral Hand there. It also limits Spellcasting as you would not be able to hear your own Spellcasting without returning to your own senses, (blindness/deafness would impose penalties), so you would have to remember to dip in/out by spending Move Actions, (okay for an unseen N.P.C.).

2. Line of Effect - mileage will vary on interpretation. I read this as whilst the Spectral Hand delivers the Spell, it at no point is stated to be treated as the Caster, (that would be your actual Character). So even if you can accurately direct your Spectral Hand, by having a solid barrier you are prevented from Casting your Spell on the Target.

Thoughts:

Spectral Hand
'... allowing you to deliver low-level, touch range spells at a distance.'
'... any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand. The spell gives you a +2 bonus on your melee touch attack roll, and attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack.'
- It references the P.C. as the Caster, delivery by the Spectral Hand and adding a Bonus to the P.C.'s Attack Roll, (as if the P.C. is the attacker despite using the Spectral Hand).

Familiar
'Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.'
- References delivering Touch Spells still treating the P.C. as the Caster, including losing the Spell being delivered if the P.C. moves onto another Spell. The Familiar is just the "toucher", which I would place the Spectral Hand as too.

Line of Effect
'Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.'
- You must have both Line of Effect to the Target Creature/Location and to the point of origin - the Spectral Hand will give Line of Effect for the Target (acting as the point of origin), however, you(r N.P.C.) must have Line of Effect to your Spectral Hand as the point of origin, (which the wall will prevent). There is no point in the second line/referring to a point of origin if it does not work this way. Spectral Hand is just good for adding Range to a Touch Spell.


Again, always with the proviso that others may interpret things differently.

Liberty's Edge

The spell delivered by the hand is a charge of a touch spell. It falls under holding a charge. It will discharge as soon as it touches anything, included the first wall it meets.

The Spectral hand go through the wall, but the touch spell is discharged.


@Diego Rossi Good catch!

Just to provide a link :
Holding the Charge
'If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges.'

@Makin And Stump Good luck, I hope that you are able to find something that suits your needs, (even if it may not be quite what you currently envisage).


it's tricky as the Spectral Hand is incorporeal but if the caster can touch a person(deliver a touch spell) then he could touch a wall and inadvertently discharge the spell. So Line of Effect(LoE) becomes an issue.

Advice:

Fog Spells or a static visual illusions (Twilight Haze, Wall of Nausea, Wall of Light{K}, Wall of Blindness{N}) might be the solution. Appearance of Life, Shroud of Innocuity on some undead. Flesh Puppet Horde. Get an amulet of spell mastery at half cost with Blood Sentinel or Migrus Locker rather than a familiar, if you do get a familiar Soulbound Doll or Homunculus might be interesting. Using Arcane Mark on one of your created undead should act as a focus(making it an individual) for clairaudience/clairvoyance but you'll need Guilded Whispers to make detection difficult.

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