Was Golarion actually a High Magic world by Starfinder standards?

[CorvusMask]

So I know first reaction lot of people have is "nah Golarion isn't more magical than Castrovel or Eox" and "Nah people of Golarion didn't have enhanced magic" but besides Galaxy Exploration Manual not saying that high magic worlds HAVE to have enhanced magic, it really checks out flavor wise.

Like, besides that Starfinder switches between Earth model of (one habitable planet, several inhabitable ones) and "Either every planet in system is capable of having life or has one intelligent species (seemingly) independently evolving on each planet", most planets with intelligent life has one species in dominance. The other worlds have about 3-4 different cultures belonging to different species(Akiton: Ysoki, Shobhad, Contemplatives, Ikeshti, Vesk-1: Vesk and two other species they genocided Castrovel: Lashunta, Elves, Formians, fourth species once mentioned in article). Meanwhile even ignoring all intelligent monsters, Golarion easily has over two dozen intelligent species with their own cultures <_<

That isn't even getting into there being demiplane prison in core of the planet, having several highly magical divine towers piercing planet's crust, having had tons of attentions from hundreds of deities, several different planar rifts even beyond worldwound which got closed, several high magical cultures in its past... We don't have lot of high magical planets as given examples in Starfinder besides probably Nessamar(since its planet cursed by deity), we do have few cultures with high amount of hybrid technology(like Azlanti, Kishalee and Sivvs), but overall Golarion seems like one of most magical planets in the galaxy.

...Soo yeah, what do you think? I actually like the idea

[UnArcaneElection]

It sounds reasonable, but I would say Triaxus has got them all beat hands-down, since its glacially slow orbit at distances compatible with having hot summers is obviously a flagrant violation of the Equivalence Principle.

[CorvusMask]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

It sounds reasonable, but I would say Triaxus has got them all beat hands-down, since its glacially slow orbit at distances compatible with having hot summers is obviously a flagrant violation of the Equivalence Principle.

Maybe that is still on range of medium magic world? :D

[Dracomicron]

I mean, Golarion is a high magic world insofar as you can't walk down the block without tripping over a +1 handaxe, and there are at least 20 world-ending magic forces just lurking in the corners.

[CorvusMask]

Not to mention amount of artifacts on Golarion x'D

[Dracomicron]

This actually can be extended to the Pact as a whole. We discussed awhile back why the Azlanti star empire would have a very bad time invading the Pact Worlds: there are so many super powerful bad-guy interests in the Pact that threatening the place indiscriminately would rile up a hornet's nest of evil demigods, undead fleets, and space monsters that could basically eat entire flights of Azlanti ships.

"We claim this planet, Aucturn, in the name of the Az-"

"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Aucturn wgah'nagl fhtagn"

"I regret everything!"

*screams in shoggoth*

[the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh]

Dracomicron wrote:

I mean, Golarion is a high magic world insofar as you can't walk down the block without tripping over a +1 handaxe, and there are at least 20 world-ending magic forces just lurking in the corners.

I kind of wish Starfinder would canonically have some really high magic worlds in, just to show off how different they look from the genres Golarion supports. (No agriculture once everyone can magically create all the food they like. No transport infrastructure once everyone can teleport reliably. Precious little need for adventurers once every municipal authority has all the magical tools needed to solve any passing mystery, and half a dozen mithril golems in their basement to send after miscreants. Anyone there who grows up with any real talent has gone off to hunt high-level threats in the Abyss.)

[Garretmander]

the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:

Dracomicron wrote:

I mean, Golarion is a high magic world insofar as you can't walk down the block without tripping over a +1 handaxe, and there are at least 20 world-ending magic forces just lurking in the corners.

I kind of wish Starfinder would canonically have some really high magic worlds in, just to show off how different they look from the genres Golarion supports. (No agriculture once everyone can magically create all the food they like. No transport infrastructure once everyone can teleport reliably. Precious little need for adventurers once every municipal authority has all the magical tools needed to solve any passing mystery, and half a dozen mithril golems in their basement to send after miscreants. Anyone there who grows up with any real talent has gone off to hunt high-level threats in the Abyss.)

Is that high magic? Or just high level?

You can replace all that with technological options (replicators, tech teleportation, robots) and have a very similar world.

[Xenocrat]

Golarion in Pathfinder 2 is a low magic world by Pathfinder 1 and Starfinder standards. :-(

[Ixal]

Garretmander wrote:

the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:

Dracomicron wrote:

I mean, Golarion is a high magic world insofar as you can't walk down the block without tripping over a +1 handaxe, and there are at least 20 world-ending magic forces just lurking in the corners.

I kind of wish Starfinder would canonically have some really high magic worlds in, just to show off how different they look from the genres Golarion supports. (No agriculture once everyone can magically create all the food they like. No transport infrastructure once everyone can teleport reliably. Precious little need for adventurers once every municipal authority has all the magical tools needed to solve any passing mystery, and half a dozen mithril golems in their basement to send after miscreants. Anyone there who grows up with any real talent has gone off to hunt high-level threats in the Abyss.)

Is that high magic? Or just high level?

You can replace all that with technological options (replicators, tech teleportation, robots) and have a very similar world.

Considering that many items in Starfinder are a fusion of magic and technology it would be one and the same.

I do not have the book, so no idea how it describes high magic worlds, but to me even the term does not make sense.
Saying "high magic world" is like saying "high laws of thermodynamic world".
Nothing indicates in Starfinder that there are worlds where magic is more or less powerful than on others. Instead it is a constant force of the universe just like all other laws of nature.
And while you certainly invent some worlds which for some reason refuse to use it, just like you can invent societies who refuse to boil water, I can't see any advanced society not using magic to its full extend.

[CorvusMask]

Xenocrat wrote:

Golarion in Pathfinder 2 is a low magic world by Pathfinder 1 and Starfinder standards. :-(

Eh, that is a lie, Pathfinder 2e still has level 10 spells, artifacts, and variety of magical monsters up to level 25 ;P Can you think of any planet in pact worlds that has multiple different level 21-25 monsters hanging around or sealed on the planet?

[CorvusMask]

Ixal wrote:

Garretmander wrote:

the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:

Dracomicron wrote:

I mean, Golarion is a high magic world insofar as you can't walk down the block without tripping over a +1 handaxe, and there are at least 20 world-ending magic forces just lurking in the corners.

I kind of wish Starfinder would canonically have some really high magic worlds in, just to show off how different they look from the genres Golarion supports. (No agriculture once everyone can magically create all the food they like. No transport infrastructure once everyone can teleport reliably. Precious little need for adventurers once every municipal authority has all the magical tools needed to solve any passing mystery, and half a dozen mithril golems in their basement to send after miscreants. Anyone there who grows up with any real talent has gone off to hunt high-level threats in the Abyss.)

Is that high magic? Or just high level?

You can replace all that with technological options (replicators, tech teleportation, robots) and have a very similar world.

Considering that many items in Starfinder are a fusion of magic and technology it would be one and the same.

I do not have the book, so no idea how it describes high magic worlds, but to me even the term does not make sense.
Saying "high magic world" is like saying "high laws of thermodynamic world".
Nothing indicates in Starfinder that there are worlds where magic is more or less powerful than on others. Instead it is a constant force of the universe just like all other laws of nature.
And while you certainly invent some worlds which for some reason refuse to use it, just like you can invent societies who refuse to boil water, I can't see any advanced society not using magic to its full extend.

I do think ye should probably read the book before ye start to speculate :D But to sum up, book says that most worlds in Starfinder are medium magic worlds and that Pact Worlds and Veskarium are example of high technology worlds.

To describe what medium magic is like here is one paragraph

"Minor magic is an everyday experience in a locale that has long had medium magic, making it a part of the culture. People use magic like any other tool, allowing them to gain and protect the things that they value, like power, wealth, and pleasure. If society is low-technology, even a modicum of magic likely serves an important role in government, religion, and other cultural mores. Spellcasters are aptly held in high esteem. Even a small amount of magical talent or training earns one a place of respect, from a village wise-person to an archmage. As the level of technology meets or exceeds magic’s capabilities, magic might fade in importance or be relegated to traditional situations. However, skill with eldritch arts becomes more common as training grows widespread, and magic use can become more specialized and individualized. With this social shift, the status of spellcasters could diminish except for those in time-honored positions, such as priests."

(note: there are multiple different types of medium magic worlds, hence why paragraph is full of "it could be like this or like this". This is world building advice, so it exists to demonstrate how many different types of medium magic worlds exist, the other paragraphs do more similar advice)

High magic is pretty much literally what it sounds like: High amount of magic. It COULD be "magic is stronger and easier to perform" on this world, but it doesn't have to be, it just needs to be "major magic is highly common or/and important to everyone in the culture". Like one example is that on high magic world, animals, plants and people with spell-like abilities are really common.

(reason why I'm specifying Golarion as high magic world by starfinder standards is that Pathfinder Golarion is high fantasy yeah, but I would call it medium magic by Pathfinder standards with few high magic nations :p Like you wouldn't see random farmers being involved in magic, but by starfinder standards, magic seems overall rarer than in pathfinder because in starfinder all level 1-20 content are spread over the galaxy while in pathfinder they are concentrated on single planet)

[UnArcaneElection]

^High level magic is probably spread all over the galaxy in Pathfinder time as well (and not just concentrated on Golarion), but we just don't get to see much of it (we see a smattering of indications of it from things that come across the Dark Tapestry to try to take over Golarion). It just looks concentrated on Golarion because we don't get to travel off Golarion very often in Pathfinder time, and because Golarion managed to survive but not get rid of a lot of the above-mentioned stuff that came from elsewhere.

Dracomicron wrote:

This actually can be extended to the Pact as a whole. We discussed awhile back why the Azlanti star empire would have a very bad time invading the Pact Worlds: there are so many super powerful bad-guy interests in the Pact that threatening the place indiscriminately would rile up a hornet's nest of evil demigods, undead fleets, and space monsters that could basically eat entire flights of Azlanti ships.

"We claim this planet, Aucturn, in the name of the Az-"

"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Aucturn wgah'nagl fhtagn"

"I regret everything!"

*screams in shoggoth*

"We claim this planet, Golarion, in the name of the Az-"

"All hail the King in Yellow, Him Who is Not to be Named, The Unspeakable Unnamed Lord!"

"I regret everything!"

*screams in Mi-Go* . . . despite not knowing a word of Aklo.

[Metaphysician]

I think there is a definition confusion here. At least as I read it, "High Magic" isn't a matter of metaphysical difference anymore than "High Technology" is. Its a measure of social development. A High Magic world is a world which has developed and built an extremely high level of magical infrastructure and capacity. Sure, this *could* be a side effect of weird local metaphysics that enhance magic, just like a High Tech world *could* be the result of a crashed alien space ship serving as a convenient cheat sheet. However, it just as well can simply be "We have spent thousands of years developing our magical resource base, and spend a good chunk of our entire planetary economy's GDP on such".

So, was Golarion prior to vanishing a High Magic world? Probably, just like it was probably a High Tech world. Was Golarion during the Pathfinder era a High Magic world? No, not in the slightest. Its overall magical development and infrastructure still placed it as equivalent of a late Renaissance/early Modern civilization, not "Star Trek but Wizards".

Now, what worlds would be examples of High Magic worlds in the Pact, IMO? Well, the cheat answer would be "Aucturn", since it absolutely operates at that level, and primarily through more-or-less magic. That's what happens when your planet is an eldritch horror. ;) Aside from that, I'd be inclined to label Castrovel as High Magic. Of its two dominant civilizations, elves are traditionally strongly magic focused, and the lashunta are an innately magical race ( yes, psychic powers are magic ) with a predilection to mad science. I don't really see any of the other major planets going above Medium Magic, though "Medium Magic" as part of an interstellar level civilization is still a pretty large amount of magic.

[Xenocrat]

The cheat answer would be Eox, since all the rulers are powerful magic users and they use magic to animate and control most of the populace.

[CorvusMask]

On sidenote, Golarion going poof has another benefit besides not needing to make up "nations of future golarion" and such:

Removing Rovagug, his spawns and other super powerful stuff on Golarion besides Starstone does great job at simplifying pact worlds as setting <_< Like having "ooh absalom station has this god rock that is rumored to give you godly powers, but at least its powerful drift beacon and excellent power source!" has tantalizing reason for different factions to attack pact worlds. (none of the other planets in the system really have "one big thing super important on galaxy wide scale" dealios) Adding omnicidal rage god and his immortal spawns among other shenanigans would either mark planet as "let's never touch it" or have wannabe supervillains attacking planet once per week for completely different reasons

(complete sidenote: it is amusing how Divinity Drive is even by starfinder time still one of most advanced technology in the entire setting)

[Metaphysician]

I would argue that Eox at least potentially has a "one big thing": the planet killing supergun whose wreckage at least is still around. Granted, that is assuming that "superweapon able to kill a planet" is rare and valuable, as opposed to being "any advanced civilization knows how to build something like that, most just don't bother because its way too expensive for not much use or benefit".

I actually lean in that latter direction, but YMMV.