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Unless i got it all wrong it seems that evil cleric just can't use channnel energy to heal their "friends"?
I mean ok i'm an orc cleric so i'm evil and i love it but i would still like to use my channel to "heal" the tools huuuh sorry.. the other orcs around me!
So yeah i think evil cleric should use "positive channel" to heal their friends/tools/followers as well as good cleric should call upon the wrath of their god to arm all those bad orcs that are surounding him for the last stand!
Would it be too disruptive to rule it that way in my campaign? Your thoughts.
That's been the one problem that I have with the Channel Energy system. I see it as kind of forcing PC's to be 'Good Samaritans' or 'Fence sitting observers'. Personally, I'd house rule it in with a penalty, (i.e. Cleric lvl -3) but that's just me.
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ok..What about your evil god allows you to channel heal these evil companions around you as long as they are furthering your aim as an evil cleric wich is furthering the goal of your god!
AND
What about your good god allows you to channel arm those badass around you as long as they are clearly evil and its fairly obvious that they are a threat to innocents.
So my point is as a DM i will not close the door on such options but its gonna be a case by case judgement.
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As far as RAW goes, only a neutral character that worships a neutral deity gets a choice on whether to heal or harm with their channel, and once that choice is made at first level it cannot be undone.
So if your orc is CN and worships Gorum, you can choose to channel positive. If you are evil, you channel negative, because that's what evil characters do.
Evil gods aren't all about saving their own troops... Think Longsahnks from Braveheart, "Arrows cost money, the dead cost nothing." If you want to heal your minions, prepare Mass Cure spells, or if you're too low for that Aid is good in a pinch.
--Vrock & Awe
channeling negative energy has always been a downer for your friends, if you need to heal someone ( probably because the messed up and got what they deserved ) you can always just load up on cure spells at prayer time. After all if they were good allies they should be dead allies, after all you have evil gods to please.
Make it chew up a feat and call it a day.
Think of all the roleplaying opportunities you'd miss if evil clerics could do both. Imagine...
Neutral cleric with Selective Channeling, channels negative energy, in the middle of a fight with some Yellow Musk Creeper zombies. In the corner is an NPC that just got shanked and is at 2 hp. His friends are right there with him. "You're gonna be okay, Ron, you're gonna be okay, just hold on there!"
Other PCs are hacking away at zombies, slowly losing. The cleric has to channel energy or the zombies get out and kill them all...
What do?
Evil may be delicious, but it also comes with a price.
Positive energy is the force of good, life, and well being. It brings succor to the defenseless, hope to the hopeless, and light in the darkness. When you ARE the darkness, tapping into a force anathema to your very being SHOULD be harder than it is for others.
I agree. I've got a necromantic Cleric in 3.5 using the PF channeling rules [game on indefinite hiatus :( ] and using it to both heal my undead allies and harm opponents has been brutal. It doesn't need to be better.
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Unless i got it all wrong it seems that evil cleric just can't use channnel energy to heal their "friends"?
I mean ok i'm an orc cleric so i'm evil and i love it but i would still like to use my channel to "heal" the tools huuuh sorry.. the other orcs around me!
So yeah i think evil cleric should use "positive channel" to heal their friends/tools/followers as well as good cleric should call upon the wrath of their god to arm all those bad orcs that are surounding him for the last stand!
Would it be too disruptive to rule it that way in my campaign? Your thoughts.
There have been several threads (many which I have posted in) concerning the issue of whether a cleric's alignment should be related to their ability to harness the power of negative or positive planar energy. There are of course several schools of thought in those threads.
In my opinion, there is no correlation between alignment and planar energy. Good deities are not from the positive plane and evil deities are not from the negative plane. The positive plane is just as harmful to material planar beings as is the negative plane. (Just in different ways). All this is even backed up in the Gods & Magic book.
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In my opinion, there is no correlation between alignment and planar energy.
Well, except for the correlation between good clerics channeling positive energy and evil clerics channeling negative energy. :)
Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games
I agree. I've got a necromantic Cleric in 3.5 using the PF channeling rules [game on indefinite hiatus :( ] and using it to both heal my undead allies and harm opponents has been brutal. It doesn't need to be better.
My room-mate pointed out this line from the Core book to me when I said something to the same effect:
"Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all
creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot
radius centered on the cleric."
You can't do it to both at the same time... which I thought you could : (
@Yrtalien: You used to be able to.
@OP: Easy. Start at lvl 1 as a Neutral Cleric.
Choose to channel positive energy.
Change alignment in-game and switch deities maybe.
Decision to channel positive energy can not be changed.
Presto! Evil cleric who channels positive energy.
At 8th level a Cleric with the Death Domain can heal himself with his negative energy burst.
There's a very easy way to get an evil cleric that channels positive energy - and the rules are totally powerless to stop you!
I'll put it in a spoiler so you can decide not to look at this - because once you have learned of this loop-hole, you cannot unlearn it!
Oh, and one more thing
Greetings, fellow travellers.
Unless you've got a pliant DM, switching dieties and alignment on a whim can find yourself being a d8 semi-fighter with no powers.
+1
Nobody wants to go down the line: damage >>> healing? ;-)
Ruyan.
Unless you've got a pliant DM, switching dieties and alignment on a whim can find yourself being a d8 semi-fighter with no powers.@Yrtalien: You used to be able to.
@OP: Easy. Start at lvl 1 as a Neutral Cleric.
Choose to channel positive energy.
Change alignment in-game and switch deities maybe.
Decision to channel positive energy can not be changed.
Presto! Evil cleric who channels positive energy.
What whim? You're swayed by the power of darkness. Just don't be obvious about it.
note: i'm not advocating swindling your DM. But many a character development has shown the temptation of evil.
What whim? You're swayed by the power of darkness. Just don't be obvious about it.
note: i'm not advocating swindling your DM. But many a character development has shown the temptation of evil.
"Strike me down with all of your hatred."
In my opinion, there is no correlation between alignment and planar energy.Well, except for the correlation between good clerics channeling positive energy and evil clerics channeling negative energy. :)
*Grin* Seems pretty black and white if you let the books DM the games. Having looked at this issue for a long time and from every angle I could see, I finally removed the artibrary-seeming restriction and clarified it for my players.
In our campaign world, the gods are mysterious and unknowable entities that can inflict horrifying calamities all while demonstrating seemingly infinite acts of compassion and tolerance. While the gods may tend toward one philosophy or another, their powers are virtually without limit.
From time to time, it just makes sense that a good diety might have a small number of agents who's focus and expertise is all about bringing down holy wrath rather than spreading protection and life. The same can be true of evil gods having agents who's primary task is to preserve his flock, with powers granted for such a purpose. The church may not boast about it openly, but that doesn't mean it can't exist.
For this reason, I allow players to choose either healing OR damage channeling when they first create their cleric, disregarding the alignment restriction entirely. That same decision will determine spontaneous casting of either healing or harming divine spells. NPC's (representing the less heroic majority of the people) are always positive for good, and negative channeling for evil.
*Grin* Seems pretty black and white if you let the books DM the games. Having looked at this issue for a long time and from every angle I could see, I finally removed the artibrary-seeming restriction and clarified it for my players.
*snip!*
You hit on a key point, I think. The rules operate under certain assumptions often based more on issues perceived to be related to balance. The justifications for the way the rules work often is not spelled out in a campaign-context. Thus, the rules assert that positive energy is good but negative energy is evil, and there is little in the way of metaphysical explanation.
For my campaign, negative energy is indeed evil. It's just the way it is, and arguments to the contrary make no more sense than complaining that water shouldn't be wet. This nature of negative energy is spelled out in the campaign, and it colors NPC perceptions. A caster using an inflict spell would be viewed with fear and suspicion insofar as that one action goes because everyone knows that negative energy is not something right-thinking people trifle with.
Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games
"Strike me down with all of your hatred."
Okay!
*wham*
Hm.. seems I don't have that much hatred. Are you okay?
"Strike me down with all of your hatred."Okay!
*wham*
Hm.. seems I don't have that much hatred. Are you okay?
*sees a few stars, shakes head*
Not bad, now it's my turn. LIGHTNING BOLT!!!!!!!!
In my opinion, there is no correlation between alignment and planar energy.Well, except for the correlation between good clerics channeling positive energy and evil clerics channeling negative energy. :)
Known simply as the Void, the Negative Energy Plane empowers undead just as positive energy is the driving force behind all living things, but contrary to some religious dogma, neither it nor its destructive energies are evil.
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Personally, I have never liked the idea of restricting Clerics to one or the other absolutely. Especially based on alignment. And because the books sll say that neither Positive nor Negative energy are themselves Good or Evil by nature. I house rule that Clerics (only) can do both, but must focus on one. If they heal living, they can as a full round action, anf for two charges, harm living at half the d6 (no min). It may be an Evil or Good act so they still have to watch it.
Well this has some game balance issues. If you let clerics do something they do become more powerful, and many feel they are already OP.
I agree. I've got a necromantic Cleric in 3.5 using the PF channeling rules [game on indefinite hiatus :( ] and using it to both heal my undead allies and harm opponents has been brutal. It doesn't need to be better.My room-mate pointed out this line from the Core book to me when I said something to the same effect:
"Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all
creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot
radius centered on the cleric."You can't do it to both at the same time... which I thought you could : (
During the Beta testing of the PF rules, you could. Until they saw just how OP it was.
"Strike me down with all of your hatred."Okay!
*wham*
Hm.. seems I don't have that much hatred. Are you okay?
*sees a few stars, shakes head*
Not bad, now it's my turn. LIGHTNING BOLT!!!!!!!!
Did you remember to toss your little beanbag depicting the bolt?
Did you remember to toss your little beanbag depicting the bolt?
What beanbag? Does a stick of dynamite count?