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The Final Fantasy franchise is something considered to be a masterpiece by millions of fan and the unofficial Pathfinder/d20 adaptation for it is much the same in my ever-so-humble opinion. With covid making face-to-face games hard to manage and the email account I made to post an FFd20 game on another site compromised by hackers, I'm desperate for a place to run an FFd20 game.
If you're familiar with FFd20- or have just glanced at the link I provided- you'll know that there is almost as much content for it as there is for first party Pathfinder 1E. The problem is that most GMs want to run a game in a pre-established Final Fantasy world, which cuts out a lot of the options due to not every world having every race or class. My solution was to find and work on a patchwork Final Fantasy world and, as providence would have it, there already was one canonically.
The concept I've labored over for quite a while now is an FFd20 game set in my own version of 'World B' from Final Fantasy Dissidia, thousands of years after Shinryu the Plane-Eater's defeat and imprisonment by the warriors under the gods Materia and Spiritus. World B- which is referred to in my iteration as Dissidia- was already a patchwork world with a map based on Final Fantasy I's 'World A' and had locales created ex nihilo by the twin overgods of the setting, drawn from the memories of the heroes and villains that were trapped in Dissidia. This means that players are free to create characters of almost any race*, belong to any class**, and come from a reflection of almost any location in Final Fantasy's extended multiverse.
*The Immortal and Palico races are banned because they are not from Final Fantasy's universe.
**The Persona User archetype is banned because it comes from Persona.
My version of Dissidia isn't just a patchwork world existing in a vacuum, it has it's own cosmology based on locales throughout the games. The twin moons that hang in the sky are practically small worlds unto themselves. The twin afterlives of Arruboth and Pandemonium are the setting's versions of Heaven and Hell respectively. It has it's own planar hierarchies too, with Elemental Archfiends, Zodiac Espers, Astrals, and the Warring Triad, among many others.
There's a lot to unpack about the setting- which I dug deep into both my own knowledge pool and the hefty Ultimania books I own to craft- and character creation rules, but I'll save those until I see whether there is any interest. My plan is to leave this up for about three days and see if there's enough people interested to allow me to run the game.
I'm holding back on revealing the full guidelines for now, but I can understand the desire to know more. So here's a sampling of character generation rules.
- Race: All races on the FFd20 SRD are legal except for the Immortal and Palico races.
- Class: All classes on the FFd20 SRD are legal. The Persona User archetype is banned for flavor reasons since it isn't native to Final Fantasy.
- Hero Points: PCs will start with an amount of hero points equal to their starting level.
- Hit Points: Static Hit Points will be used. All that basically does is make the HP you get from your first class level higher so that you can take more punishment. You treat HP acquired upon gaining a class level as if you rolled the maximum for your HD as well.
- Sub Jobs: There used to be a category for a system on the SRD that worked more or less like a weaker gestalt. Since I haven't been able to find the Sub Job section since the website's revamp, players just get a multiclass side that they must select at character creation. The various class VMC options and what they give can be found here. There's no need to exchange feats for this VMC. That's roughly the equivalent of the Sub Job system from what I recall.
I may be interested. I was thinking of a time mage speedster VMC fighter with a dip in dragoon eventually.
Very interested, considering a natural attack Lamia Berserker? and maybe with a Gambler VMC??
Considering a Red Mage, going Ruby Magister. No clue about a VMC yet. Gonna read over more classes.
I am interested b/c I love learning about new house systems. I'm going to be honest, I have very little familiarity with the fluff, but I'm willing to learn -- will that be an issue?
I'm looking through the classes -- there doesn't seem to be a cleric as such, can you explain how worship/religion works in this world?
I'd like to make either bard/buffer/marshal type character, an evil cleric, or a spy/assassin type character. If the PF1e equivalents help I like Bard/battle herald, unchained rogue/vivisectionist alchemist, slayer, and investigator, and inquisitors. I like cleric/thief fighter/cleric bard/buffer kinds of builds. I like to play the sneaky attacker, the buffer, the poison user, or the skill maven.
Always interested in playing Final Fantasy. I'm thinking of an Elvann Black mage or Summoner.
I'll have to take a look at it. I'm a huuuuge fan of the unofficial Final Fantasy d6 system (a rules light-medium take on the game), but I've never even heard of the d20 vrsion.
Big fan of Blue Mages, so if that's an option I'd likely make one.
Maybe I'll remake one of my FFd6 characters, who was a Blue Mage sub-job Dark Knight. Not sure if that works as well here; their abilities to tank their HP for more power were very complimentary in that system, and you got to keep all former Job abilities (with some exceptions) when changing out, so a VMC might be significantly less impressive.
Huh, interesting. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised a d20 version of Final Fantasy exists. :D I'll have to take a look at it.
@Sebecloki: Knowledge of Final Fantasy's fluff isn't required. It will definitely aid in your appreciation of the game if you have some though. Most of the information you need is going to be in the exposition and setting drop.
Final Fantasy doesn't have traditional clerical classes that require devotion apart from the Cleric. There are some with ties to sacred or profane energies- such as the White Mage, Paladin, Dark Knight, and such- but devotion to the gods is not the primary way to gain power in the Final Fantasy universe. Magic is magic in this universe and has no distinction based on the source, only what type it is. If you're familiar with Magic the Gathering, it's similarly divided into color-coded concepts here by and large.
Black Magic is destructive or debilitative in nature and ranges from elemental spells to devious tricks like poison or draining HP from enemies to restore your own.
White Magic is mostly supportive in nature and consists of healing, buffing, and the occasional debuffing, with only a select few high level holy spells being used for damage.
Blue Magic is strange in it's own way because you learn it from enemies who use it and provides a wide range of spells, many of which are only useful in specific scenarios.
Red Magic combines Black and White Magic and is sort of a generalist approach to magic, with some unique spells thrown in the mix depending on the game like spellblade effects in XIV.
Green Magic- now known as Time Magic- focuses on a variety of time and space-flavored buffs and debuffs like Haste, Slow, and Stop, plus things like Comet, Gravity Ball, Teleport, and similar spells.
Astrologian Magic blends healing spells, utility spells, some divinations, and a select few damage spells like Sunburst.
Bards don't have magic per se, but their Bard Songs function as spells in everything but name. Bards are capable of massive buffing and have a smattering of other types of spells. Not too much different than the Pathfinder Bard if you really think about it.
Dark Knights and Holy Knights are essentially Antipaladins and Paladins and have spell selections to match. Dark Knights have a great deal of shadow damage-based spells, personal buffs, and a few summon spells. Holy Knights have heals, buffs, and holy damage-based spells.
Druids and Geomancers have about what you could expect and are very close to the Pathfinder Druid with what kinds of spells they have access to. They're nature mages with a broad swathe of potential spells.
Illusionists have a spell list consisting of, well... illusions.
Necromancers specialize in spells that deal shadow damage, status effects like poison and zombify, and instant death effects. Instant death effects aren't as strong in FFd20 because most "bosses" are flat-out immune to them, just like in the video games.
Summoners are very similar to their Pathfinder iteration, focused on conjuring creatures, gear, et cetera, and have a smattering of other things like elemental and utility spells.
There are a range of other magical powers that resemble Spheres of Power spherecasting, Path of War maneuvers, and what have you, but those don't function using the MP system.
Based on your stated preferences, I'd suggest looking into the Bard, Thief, White Mage, Astrologian, Chemist, Cleric, Dark Knight, Necromancer, Time Mage, Dancer, and Ninja. There are quite a few archetypes and some are modeled on existing Pathfinder archetypes, so you will probably be able to find something that suits your tastes.
Clerics get very different spell lists and class features based on what Deific Order they belong to. Just be aware that Clerics are not as bland as they first seem because of that design choice. Link for Deific Orders.
@Storm Dragon: There are absolutely Blue Mages in the FFd20 system and I always aim to give players access to as much Blue Magic as I can. So you won't run into the normal problem of a GM being stingy with opportunities to learn new Blue Magic.
Nice, that sounds great. Looking at options, I may be either a Mystic Savant, or a Primal Mage, leaning toward the former. I like the idea of "eating" magic, just need to figure out whether I want it to be more or less literal.
The guitar-based bard sounds interesting -- I might also do a thief sub job chemist or vice versa.
Is there a fluff wiki you could suggest to learn more about the setting we'll be using?
The guitar-based bard sounds interesting -- I might also do a thief sub job chemist or vice versa.
Is there a fluff wiki you could suggest to learn more about the setting we'll be using?
From what I know of Dissidia, there's nothing really specific about its world. It's the designated crossover franchise for the extended Final Fantasy canon, and is a hodgepodge of all of the other existing settings.
The character I was initially thinking of recreating was from the Crystal Chronicles world, for example. But because it's a Dissidia-styled game, he could just as easily coexist with characters from Spira, Eorzea, Ivalice, and so on.
Basically, the wiki you'll want is the Final Fantasy fandom wiki, and to just kind of figure out which existing setting you want to be from originally for fluff.
Dissidia does have some canon lore, but only up to Dissidia NT and you have to dig for it like you would in Dark Souls. My version of the world is about two millennia past those events, so there's a lot of homebrewed lore. And since the setting was more or less a blank slate with only suggestions about where things were going, I was free to tinker with it as I pleased.
I feel I should clarify: none of the inhabitants of Dissidia that are alive now are from another world, although most of them are from one of the reflections found in Dissidia. Even the Great Heroes- who are the imperfect clones of the characters in the Dissidia games and serve as the Elminsters, Mordenkainens, and Abrogail Thrunes of the setting- were technically "born" as natives since they sprung from the sacred crystals bestowed upon the world by the Great Will following the events of Dissidia NT. The same goes for even the twin gods Materia and Spiritus, who were formed from the essence of the deceased deities Cosmos and Chaos. So, while you might play as a magitek-wielding SOLDIER from the city of Midgar or as a sacred dancer of the tree-city of Cleyra, you aren't actually from another world.
*I suppose you could technically consider the inhabitants of the moons "from another world", since the moons are planetary bodies that exist in orbit above Dissidia. I still consider them native though since they are not from one of the Final Fantasy worlds beyond the Rift and did not come from Arruboth or Pandemonium.
Don't worry, there will be a big enough lore and setting dump come the day I release the recruitment. Most locales will get around a paragraph of a description, the history of Dissidia's world will be probably around 4-5 Word pages of information, and there will be some expository information on major figures of the setting. Those figures will include the divine entities of the world such as the Warring Triad, the twin creator gods Materia and Spiritus, the Elemental Archfiends and the Lord of Hell, the Zodiac Scions, the Great Heroes created in the image of the heroes and villains that returned to their own worlds, Shinryu the Plane-Eater, and even a few scraps of information on the Great Will, among others.
The original interest check I made for this thread was originally around four pages before I decided to pare it down and that only held about a 15% of the information I had written. So the setting does has some heft. I also have concept art from the Ultimanias that I plan on using as visual aids to show what the various locales and major NPCs look like, as well as any creatures we run across. That's one of the wonders of FFd20; you can find art for basically anything in the franchise to really spiff up your presentation for the players.
I found the sub job system through an archive.org snapshot
Having played in the living world that the maker runs for the Pathfinder FFD20, I can say the system is quite fun.
I have always been a bif final fantasy fan so this is very intriguing.
Honestly, I've only playd FF Tactics, but it was awesome.
Would love to try a martially oriented class.
Sword Saint <3
Still gonna go with the Red Mage into Ruby Magister, with Dark Knight as my sub-job.
Thinking about an illusionist, possibly with the succubus archetype
I've played FFTactics, FF1-3, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFX2, FFXI, FFXIII, and seen the FF movies. I wouldn't say I know a ton of the lore though. It's been a long time since I played any of those also.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Most Final Fantasy games are pretty simple.
Personally, I've only every played IV, X, XII, and XIV, plus about an hour of the original VII.
My first exposure to "Final Fantasy" was Final Fantasy Legend 2 (which is actually just SaGa 2). You can kinda pick up a bunch of stuff just reading wikis for whatever setting sounds neat on the surface.
Everything I know about Crystal Chronicles was picked up because my friend ran a Final Fantasy d6 game set in that setting.
In short...I think you're plenty qualified to participate lol, you've played most of the games and even watched the ding dang movies.
I think that's enough interest to warrant a game. I'm going to be busy throughout the weekend, but a game should materialize the first part of next week after I get back home.
If there's anything you'd like to ask about while we wait, don't be shy.
@The Lobster: Thank you so much for finding that! Now I can run my original vision for the game with no alterations.
Alright, having had a read around I'm torn between Sword Saint and Samurai. Both seem solid in using swords to deal tons of damage. Maybe the Sword Saint has less resources to track down (which should be positive for a rookie like me).
Any other class I should have a look at? And any suggestion as for the Sub Job?
Alright, having had a read around I'm torn between Sword Saint and Samurai. Both seem solid in using swords to deal tons of damage. Maybe the Sword Saint has less resources to track down (which should be positive for a rookie like me).
Any other class I should have a look at? And any suggestion as for the Sub Job?
For Samurai, I saw the Blind Swordsman class and then combined it with Holy Knight. It was pretty decent.
For the Sword Saint, you could perhaps do Holy Knight or I was looking at Cacophonist Bard and I think it would be funny to see a demoralizing swordsman whose words in battle are so demoralizing that he never has to fight.
If you are looking for a neat class that is unique from pathfinder, I'd suggest looking at geomancers. They get some weird abilities based on the terrain you are on. These cause all sorts of negative effects.
If you are wanting a crazy class, look at the Arithmetitian Scholar.
Hm. I was initially planning on a Blue Mage/Engineer, but the sub-Job for Engineer is considerably worse than the VMC.
Maybe I'll go Bio-Injector Chemist; Aedilgast was a user of chemical warfare in his original incarnation (as someone who studied and tried to harness the properties of the Miasma).
Which version of the Sub job are we using? The archived one gives us all the features of the sub job, but the newer version takes away feats to give us only some of the features.Hm. I was initially planning on a Blue Mage/Engineer, but the sub-Job for Engineer is considerably worse than the VMC.
The houserule in the Op was using the VMC version, but negating the Feat loss; we are now (it seems) using the archived sub-Job rules. So getting some key class features at full or level-3 progression is potentially better than getting all class features, all at half progression.
The Sub-Job is USUALLY better I'd say, but I really wanted the Engineer Automaton, and always having it be at half level makes it unusable for most purposes.
But the Chemist option looks fun too, so it's no big deal to switch.
I'm not really going for a healing role, I just like the idea of a drug gun and being able to essentially Lay on Hands myself; a good tool for someone who is incentivized to let themselves be targeted by monsters.
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Oh no, I’m not saying go healer, that’s what I was going for and the chemist definitely has some nice traits to let him be a party healer. That’s why I considered him. But the white mage/medic is unruly when it comes to party healing. Spells, channel energy, damage redirect, then able to take a full action and move twice my speed, healing everyone I pass. You can bet I’ll be looking for speed boosts! And since both classes rely on WIS for me, I can make that my primary stat. Dex for me would be second, as would you I’d imagine after INT.
GM, would you be interested in utilizing Elephant in the Room feat taxes or background skills?
What build were you planning on? 20-point buy? 25-point buy? 3d6 or 4d6 drop the lowest rolling system?
What is your desired post rate for the game? Weekends?
What are your requirements for applications? Background? Personality? How long?
Usually there are many more questions that come up in a recruitment thread than these. I just wanted to present some things to think about when making your that post.
Please no elephant in the room.
...Why? I've implemented a similar system in my own games for so long it's hard to imagine the drawbacks. Leads to a whole hell of a lot more interesting character builds when you can skip out on boring (Power Attack, Weapon Finesse) or useless (Combat Expertise) Feats you need to get to the fun stuff.
Allowing people to actually play their character from level 1 instead of level 5 minimum for many options is something Paizo should have considered in their conversion to 3.5, honestly. The fact that you can't play, say, a wrestler at level 1 for most characters is absurd.
It also helps cut down on Human (or in this case, Hume) dominance so people can actually choose the fun Final Fantasy races without feeling gimped.
I think I'm finally going for the Samurai. It's very similar to the Sword Saint, but I think its damage-dealing abilities are more appealing to me - the Sword Saint seems more focused on invoking swordy fireballs, while the Samurai does the combos with the sword itself. It's just a matter of fluff, but fluff used to be important back then... :P
Got a lot of questions about the World, but I'll wait for the recruitment thread - I'm sure most of my doubts will be cleared there.
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My problem with the elephant in the room is that the way they wrote Pathfinder is that you’re a level 1 character for a reason. A lot of the “feat taxes” are in place to give it a more realistic feel. Take precise shot for example. As a level one character with no combat experience whatsoever you’re telling me that you can accurately without fail shoot with your buddy standing right in front of the enemy. That is something that cannot be trained for because of the movement of combat. Point blank shot? Yes. With long practice in front of a dummy you can learn to shoot accurately within 30 feet. With experience and practice shooting in combat you learn how to shoot around your friends, just giving you access to the better feat a precise shot and ignoring that penalty. The elephant in the playground rules set basically takes away all of this and gives you access to these higher level feeds at a lower level because players want their bills to do one thing but they don’t want to take the time and earn the experience to be able to do these feats.
I think it is...extremely odd to assume that the average first level PC has "no combat experience whatsoever". Particularly for martial classes this is demonstrably untrue, and this can be backed up quite easily by the backstories Paizo themselves crafted for the Iconics. Most are HEAVILY combat experienced by the time their first "adventure" rolls around, and they're all level 1.
Well, if you compare a 1st level fighter with a 10th level one, yeah, he's quite green. But if you compare it with a commoner, he's a veteran. A 1st level fighter has competence with heavy armor, for example, something which requires years of practice.
That said, and even though I like EitR, I'm perfectly okay if we go standard. We have Subjobs, after all.
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I just found the rules for a magitech knight! Soo tempting to change my idea now!
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So I stumbled on several things that reference "Job Points (JP)" but I can't seem to find any explanation of how you acrue or use them. Anyone have any idea?
My problem with the elephant in the room is that the way they wrote Pathfinder is that you’re a level 1 character for a reason. A lot of the “feat taxes” are in place to give it a more realistic feel. Take precise shot for example. As a level one character with no combat experience whatsoever you’re telling me that you can accurately without fail shoot with your buddy standing right in front of the enemy. That is something that cannot be trained for because of the movement of combat. Point blank shot? Yes. With long practice in front of a dummy you can learn to shoot accurately within 30 feet. With experience and practice shooting in combat you learn how to shoot around your friends, just giving you access to the better feat a precise shot and ignoring that penalty. The elephant in the playground rules set basically takes away all of this and gives you access to these higher level feeds at a lower level because players want their bills to do one thing but they don’t want to take the time and earn the experience to be able to do these feats.
Firstly, trying to insert realism into a fantasy game where there's dragons and magic is almost never going to work out well.
Secondly, let's take your precise shot argument:
The penalty is basically supposed to represent the oft seen moment in movies where it's hard to shoot an opponent who is fighting your friend/other good guy right? We've all seen in countless movies, shows, cartoons, etc. Can be with a gun, or just as easily with a bow. A lot of the times, the person trying to shoot the bad guy is even at least fairly trained(ie above level 1), but the issue is, they haven't trained in this specific combat technique.
However, what if they did? After all, the penalty isn't due to some 'nebulous' factor like being the bad guy. It's cuz close quarters combat is confusing, fast, and chaotic.
Sooo, have two of your buddies wrestle each other, and you practice hitting one of them with your gun/bow. Obviously using nonlethal/'harmless' ammo. Keep this up for 50+ shots a day, 7 days a week, for a whole month, and I bet at the end of the 30 days, you've earned yourself Precise Shot.
So I stumbled on several things that reference "Job Points (JP)" but I can't seem to find any explanation of how you acrue or use them. Anyone have any idea?
There's a special class called Freelancer. It consists of a base skeleton to which you add abilities taken from other classes, paying Job Points to get them or boost your saves, attacks bonus, etc. It may refer to this.
Honestly, and though I love that kind of customisation, I think having a Subjob should not allow us to use the Freelancer.
If the position of Sword Saint is once again unoccupied
I'm definitely going with either a Samurai or an Archer, depending on how many melee there'll be.
Ah, that explains why I didn't find the rules, I wasn't looking there. Wasn't considering that class anyway.
I'm really in a toss up now between the illusionist (succubus) or the magitek knight. I really want spells but the knight doesn't have them and probably can't use them anyway inside the armor.
Going to have to look through it more to decide.