The general consensus I've seen is that the custom weapon creation rules are intentionally weak (with even weapons like daggers and scimitars apparently being outside the design point budget for a custom weapon), so that players can't make anything overpowered, whereas GMs can ignore budgets and make whatever they please.
That implies the weapon creation rules are intended to be used by players though, and not limited to GMs. Is this the case?
(I'd be interested in playing a mad inventor blacksmith that creates bizarre niche weapons for every occasion, but only if the rules support it.)
...this section introduces rules for GMs to use as guidelines.
No, they're not player facing rules especially. They're weak because they're not intended to outshine existing weapons for whatever reason, not because they're intended for player use.
That said, a GM might well agree to allow you to use them if you're not set up to abuse them with warpriest rules or something.
That's good. I hadn't considered using warpriest to bypass low damage dice on custom weapons. I was just thinking it'd be cool to fill in stat niches that existing weapons don't cover, or to make weird borderline ineffective contraptions, in which case low dice would be authentic!
As often the case with such modular system (cf. the Race Builder), they aren't powergamer-proof. It's true that a bunch of weapons is unreplicable, but that doesn't mean that you "can't make anything overpowered". Basically, for almost every strength-based melee build, you can make a weapon that's stronger than any existing ones (the exception being light weapons, e.g. for Brawler).
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If you are making a "generic" weapon then yes, they are weak. If you're designing for a specific PC then they can be quite good.
Most of the more powerful variations revolve around playing with the crit range normally available for particular builds. Hey, a skirnir magus can now have an 18-20 crit range weapon that also counts as a shield! Ooh, here's a 1d10 (18-20x2) monk weapon for my unchained monk.
You can also make some interesting items that don't currently exist. Ranged weapons with an 18-20 crit modifier? Yup. 2d6 finessable that does bludgeoning AND slashing? Sure. The "spring-loaded" quality is a lot of fun to play around with. Can I make an 18-20x3 weapon? Yes, if I reduce the damage to d2. Not great on average, but think of the crits!
Yeah, you can still pile on the damage with a 1d2 weapon as long as you have high Str or Dex, Power Attack or Piranha Strike, and lots of extra attacks either from Haste, Flurry, and/or Imp/Gr TWF.
I'm particularly fond of dual-wielding 1d2 17-20/x4 weapons. If you boost the 1d2 with Warpriest or Brawler + Monk's Robe shenanigans, even better.
Yeah, you can still pile on the damage with a 1d2 weapon as long as you have high Str or Dex, Power Attack or Piranha Strike, and lots of extra attacks either from Haste, Flurry, and/or Imp/Gr TWF.
I'm particularly fond of dual-wielding 1d2 17-20/x4 weapons. If you boost the 1d2 with Warpriest or Brawler + Monk's Robe shenanigans, even better.
How do you sleep at night?
Jokes aside, the things i had in mind were SIGNIFICANTLY tamer than abominations like that. I was content with things like a simple bludgeoning and slashing weapon, you know, like a bladed mace. For things like that i guess ill just hope the DM doesnt mind.
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Actually now that you mention it im not sure how you managed to create that weapon and dual wield it?
Exotic = +6 points
One handed = +2 points
Additional design (capped by one-handed) = +2
Lesser damage 1d2 = +1
Total design points = +11 points
Improved Multiplier 1 = -3
Improved Multiplier 2 = -6
Improved crit range 1 = -3
Total design debt = 12 points
Did i miss something or is the maths off?
Yeah, you can still pile on the damage with a 1d2 weapon as long as you have high Str or Dex, Power Attack or Piranha Strike, and lots of extra attacks either from Haste, Flurry, and/or Imp/Gr TWF.
I'm particularly fond of dual-wielding 1d2 17-20/x4 weapons. If you boost the 1d2 with Warpriest or Brawler + Monk's Robe shenanigans, even better.
How do you sleep at night?
Jokes aside, the things i had in mind were SIGNIFICANTLY tamer than abominations like that. I was content with things like a simple bludgeoning and slashing weapon, you know, like a bladed mace. For things like that i guess ill just hope the DM doesnt mind.
Well, a GM does have a counter to nonsense like that. Enemies with high DR and/or immunity to criticals :P
Lots of low/med dmg attacks = a lot of damage once added up, but lots of low/med dmg attacks vs. high DR = the mob says "Did someone leave a window open?! Your puny attacks are nothing, NAAAUSSSINNNG, Muahaha n other stuff n things"
How do you sleep at night?
Jokes aside, the things i had in mind were SIGNIFICANTLY tamer than abominations like that. I was content with things like a simple bludgeoning and slashing weapon, you know, like a bladed mace. For things like that i guess ill just hope the DM doesnt mind.
Well, a GM does have a counter to nonsense like that. Enemies with high DR and/or immunity to criticals :P
Lots of low/med dmg attacks = a lot of damage once added up, but lots of low/med dmg attacks vs. high DR = the mob says "Did someone leave a window open?! Your puny attacks are nothing, NAAAUSSSINNNG, Muahaha n other stuff n things"
Explain maths on your one handed weapon!
What did i miss?
You do a DP 10 Exotic one-handed weapon, and put it in the Close weapon category (for brawlers). Take dmg down to 1d2 for +1 DP, and give it the Fragile weapon property for +1 DP, so now you have 12 DP to work with. 3 DP for 19-20 crit range, and 3DP for taking x2 --> x3 and 6DP for taking x3 --> x4 multiplier. Then put a keen weapon enchant on each of them, and you can afford your first +1 Keen enchant at lvl 5 and your 2nd +1 keen enchant by lvl 7, and a Monk's Robe by lvl 8, then you're in business, because now you're dualwielding 2d6+Str+PA+Enc 17-20/x4 with Flurry/Imp TWF. Get one of your group members to cast Enlarge and Haste on you to cast the legendary spell GM Flips Table.
You do a DP 10 Exotic one-handed weapon, and put it in the Close weapon category (for brawlers). Take dmg down to 1d2 for +1 DP, and give it the Fragile weapon property for +1 DP, so now you have 12 DP to work with. 3 DP for 19-20 crit range, and 3DP for taking x2 --> x3 and 6DP for taking x3 --> x4 multiplier. Then put a keen weapon enchant on each of them, and you can afford your first +1 Keen enchant at lvl 5 and your 2nd +1 keen enchant by lvl 7, and a Monk's Robe by lvl 8, then you're in business, because now you're dualwielding 2d6+Str+PA+Enc with 17-20/x4 and Imp TWF. Get one of your group members to cast Enlarge and Haste on you to cast the legendary spell GM Flips Table.
Fragile property. That's what i missed.
You do a DP 10 Exotic one-handed weapon, and put it in the Close weapon category (for brawlers). Take dmg down to 1d2 for +1 DP, and give it the Fragile weapon property for +1 DP, so now you have 12 DP to work with. 3 DP for 19-20 crit range, and 3DP for taking x2 --> x3 and 6DP for taking x3 --> x4 multiplier. Then put a keen weapon enchant on each of them, and you can afford your first +1 Keen enchant at lvl 5 and your 2nd +1 keen enchant by lvl 7, and a Monk's Robe by lvl 8, then you're in business, because now you're dualwielding 2d6+Str+PA+Enc with 17-20/x4 and Imp TWF. Get one of your group members to cast Enlarge and Haste on you to cast the legendary spell GM Flips Table.Fragile property. That's what i missed.
You can get UMD and a Wand of Mending for the times you roll a 1 with your weapon. You might want to keep a Masterwork, unenchanted backup weapon so you don't actually destroy your weapon with a 2nd 1 roll.
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You do a DP 10 Exotic one-handed weapon, and put it in the Close weapon category (for brawlers). Take dmg down to 1d2 for +1 DP, and give it the Fragile weapon property for +1 DP, so now you have 12 DP to work with. 3 DP for 19-20 crit range, and 3DP for taking x2 --> x3 and 6DP for taking x3 --> x4 multiplier. Then put a keen weapon enchant on each of them, and you can afford your first +1 Keen enchant at lvl 5 and your 2nd +1 keen enchant by lvl 7, and a Monk's Robe by lvl 8, then you're in business, because now you're dualwielding 2d6+Str+PA+Enc 17-20/x4 with Flurry/Imp TWF. Get one of your group members to cast Enlarge and Haste on you to cast the legendary spell GM Flips Table.
If your weapon has the “expanded crit range” quality, you can only increase the crit multiplier once (to x3) and that costs 6 DP.
You do a DP 10 Exotic one-handed weapon, and put it in the Close weapon category (for brawlers). Take dmg down to 1d2 for +1 DP, and give it the Fragile weapon property for +1 DP, so now you have 12 DP to work with. 3 DP for 19-20 crit range, and 3DP for taking x2 --> x3 and 6DP for taking x3 --> x4 multiplier. Then put a keen weapon enchant on each of them, and you can afford your first +1 Keen enchant at lvl 5 and your 2nd +1 keen enchant by lvl 7, and a Monk's Robe by lvl 8, then you're in business, because now you're dualwielding 2d6+Str+PA+Enc 17-20/x4 with Flurry/Imp TWF. Get one of your group members to cast Enlarge and Haste on you to cast the legendary spell GM Flips Table.If your weapon has the “expanded crit range” quality, you can only increase the crit multiplier once (to x3) and that costs 6 DP.
Hey good point.
Does it actually work like that? Does sticking axe heads into a club make it a "b and s" improvised weapon?
Secondly, is it treated as a b weapon and a s weapon for how it works with abilities that have different effects based on using specific damage type of weapon? Im rusty on improvised weapons but i think they are still treated as weapons for effects?
If Weapon Versatility + Hamatula Strike + Body Bludgeon is a thing, I don't think the equivalent of "board with a nail in it" is too unusual.