I have the start of a build I like but I'm looking for advice on how to level it up further and what options might fit the theme. This is being built as a PC or PC equivalent NPC/GMNPC.
The concept is essentially someone whose soul is extremely open to being influenced, but refuses to fully commit to any of the things tempting them, partially for self-interest, partially because they're not quite evil enough to want to join them.
They're knowledgeable and charismatic enough to convince people to join them on quests that are more to this character's benefit, probably not planning to screw them over but it could happen.
The build so far:
Race: Human probably, not required but the build is skill hungry so the extra point/level helps.
Alignment: Neutral Evil (Most options, lets you invoke a true neutral spirit to dodge detect evil, I think)
Stats at 1st level with 20 point buy:
Str 16 Dex 7 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 18
Level bonuses go into Cha
Oracle 1
Curse: Covetous (Use magic device as class skill, thematic)
Mystery: Lore
Revelations:
Sidestep secret
Lorekeeper
Spells known:
Cure Light Wounds
Decompose Corpse (for those emergency coverups)
Face of the Devourer (extra combat power, intimidate, and in a pinch you can cast it on an enemy to make them look like the monster)
Obscuring Mist
Insinuator Antipaladin X
For at least a few levels.
Greeds: Sickened (generally good, also helps in case the covetous drawback gets activated)
This gives us Cha instead of Dex or Int to AC, Reflex, and knowledge skills, all knowledge skills as class skills, and of course Cha bonus to saves.
Feats:
Extra Revelation, Spirit Ridden, Power Attack probably, ???
So on a given day they'll pick a patron to empower them and a spirit to grant them full ranks in two skills, while generally being good at most social skills and not awful at knowledge skills.
Things I'm particularly trying to find:
Additional "flexibility" options like spirit ridden
Other abilities that fit the theme of gaining power from multiple disparate sources
More skill points?
Some way to be good at sneaking after you've tanked dex
Something to do in combat other than just power attack
Would variant multiclass: bard would be a good way to go?
Mystery: Lore
Revelations:
Sidestep secret
Lorekeeper
The CHA bonus to Reflex from Sidestep Secret does not stack with the Antipaladin's Unholy Resilience (CHA to all saves). As an alternative, there is the Nature mystery's Nature's Whispers revelation, which adds CHA to AC and CMD, which would be better; however, you'd have to give up on the Lorekeeper revelation.
Things I'm particularly trying to find:
Additional "flexibility" options like spirit ridden
Other abilities that fit the theme of gaining power from multiple disparate sources
More skill points?
Some way to be good at sneaking after you've tanked dex
Something to do in combat other than just power attack
Maximum flexibility resides in a Half-Elf's Paragon Surge spell. Since that is on the Oracle spell list, a wand would work without UMD; it's also on the Paladin spell list, but not on the Antipaladin spell list (dunno why).
When you are dipping Oracle for 1 level, it's a good idea to take an archetype that doesn't replace the 1st-level revelation, like Dual-Cursed. If you want maximum flexibility then the Spirit Guide is the best Oracle archetype, but requires at least 3 Oracle levels.
The Wisdom in the Flesh trait allows you to use WIS instead of DEX for Stealth. Works well with any Oracle ability that adds CHA to WIS modifiers (e.g. Heaven's Guiding Star).
Another dip for consideration is the Sorcerer, especially Crossblooded. Similarly, the Eldritch Heritage feats offer some good opportunities for anyone with a high CHA.
However, I suggest you first flesh out some more ideas of what roles you want your character to play. Skill monkey? Front-line combat? Debuff/controller like a Heavens Oracle?
1 Oracle (Heavens - Revelation: Awesome Display)
1 Scaled Fist Monk for Cha to AC
2 Anti Paladin for Cha to Saves
1 Sorcerer for 1st lvl spontaneous arcane casting
4 Dragon Disciple (+4 Str, +2 Nat Armor, +3 spell progression -- pick buff spells like Expeditious Retreat, Blur, Enlarge, Invisibility, etc.) and Bloodline Feat Power Attack at DD2
11 Sorcerer (you'd end up with 15th level caster, so 7th level Sorc spells)
Get Heighten Spell and become a Knockout Specialist with Color Spray (and all other Illusion [Pattern] spells like hypnotic pattern, rainbow pattern, etc.) powered by Awesome Display, and now you're a pretty powerful Crowd Controller. Focus on getting Illusion and Buff spells from your Sorc spellcasting while focusing feats primarily on your Combat and Melee Prowess.
You can cause Sicken with Cornugon Smash + Cruel Enchant on your weapon, so going 3 Anti-pal isn't super necessary.
The CHA bonus to Reflex from Sidestep Secret does not stack with the Antipaladin's Unholy Resilience (CHA to all saves). As an alternative, there is the Nature mystery's Nature's Whispers revelation, which adds CHA to AC and CMD, which would be better; however, you'd have to give up on the Lorekeeper revelation.Mystery: Lore
Revelations:
Sidestep secret
Lorekeeper
Are you certain? I thought that as it is replacement for a stat, it would stack with the antipaladin's untyped bonus. Still good.
Honestly I think I could successfully argue in our group it's an error that it doesn't work like the otherwise identical Nature one, because forgetting about CMD is something they do, but yeah let's assume Nature. It's cleaner, less debatable, frees up a feat.I don't think I get much out of dual cursed except a second curse, but spirit guide seems really good. I didn't want to make it more than a 1 level dip, but I can't deny that archetype is a perfect fit thematically and is mechanically really nice. Plus it adds as options guiding star for Wisdom in the Flesh and benefit of wisdom, which is just better lorekeeper, so that helps with the switch to nature.
Another dip for consideration is the Sorcerer, especially Crossblooded. Similarly, the Eldritch Heritage feats offer some good opportunities for anyone with a high CHA. However, I suggest you first flesh out some more ideas of what roles you want your character to play. Skill monkey? Front-line combat? Debuff/controller like a Heavens Oracle?
I think at least decent skills and a reasonable face, but more of a frontliner than not, they should be pretty self-reliant rather than a focused debuffer who needs other people to help with the killing part.
1 Oracle (Heavens - Revelation: Awesome Display)
1 Scaled Fist Monk for Cha to AC
2 Anti Paladin for Cha to Saves
1 Sorcerer for 1st lvl spontaneous arcane casting
4 Dragon Disciple (+4 Str, +2 Nat Armor, +3 spell progression -- pick buff spells like Expeditious Retreat, Blur, Enlarge, Invisibility, etc.) and Bloodline Feat Power Attack at DD2
11 Sorcerer (you'd end up with 15th level caster, so 7th level Sorc spells)Get Heighten Spell and become a Knockout Specialist with Color Spray (and all other Illusion [Pattern] spells like hypnotic pattern, rainbow pattern, etc.) powered by Awesome Display, and now you're a pretty powerful Crowd Controller. Focus on getting Illusion and Buff spells from your Sorc spellcasting while focusing feats primarily on your Combat and Melee Prowess.
You can cause Sicken with Cornugon Smash + Cruel Enchant on your weapon, so going 3 Anti-pal isn't super necessary.
The insinuator archetype, which I like for this character gets essentially lays on hands, self only. The third level lets me suppress the sickened condition on myself because Covetous creates a risk of getting sickened for extended periods.
That build is really cool, I think it's a bit too focused for what I'm looking for but I will reevaluate.
Don't forget about the Half Elf Multidisciplined racial trait, the Magical Knack trait, and the Prestigious Spellcaster feat (if you take a prestige class) for bolstering CL; they're very useful for caster builds with a bunch of dips into other classes.
Maximum flexibility resides in a Half-Elf's Paragon Surge spell.
I'll second this - it's an extraordinarily useful spell, even post-nerf. Honestly I've got a bit of a love/hate relationship with it, because it's so useful it tends to warp my builds around it.
Honestly I think I could successfully argue in our group it's an error that it doesn't work like the otherwise identical Nature one, because forgetting about CMD is something they do, but yeah let's assume Nature. It's cleaner, less debatable, frees up a feat.
If you can do it that way, then it's a good idea.
I don't think I get much out of dual cursed except a second curse, but spirit guide seems really good. I didn't want to make it more than a 1 level dip, but I can't deny that archetype is a perfect fit thematically and is mechanically really nice. Plus it adds as options guiding star for Wisdom in the Flesh and benefit of wisdom, which is just better lorekeeper, so that helps with the switch to nature.
Some curses are already very good at 1st-level and add little of value to some character later - your Covetous curse is in fact such a curse; you could then take a curse with more benefits as your curse level progresses, e.g. Clouded Vision, Deep One, Lame, Legalistic, Possessed... . And the Misfortune revelation of the Dual-Cursed Oracle is one of the strongest revelations there is:
Misfortune (Ex):
At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. Once a creature has suffered from your misfortune, it cannot be the target of this revelation again for 1 day.
Despite its name, you will likely end up using it on yourself & your party a lot too: The party Wizard rolled a Nat 1 on his Fort save? Misfortune! The enemy threatens a crit with a Nat 20 on his attack roll? Misfortune!
I think at least decent skills and a reasonable face, but more of a frontliner than not, they should be pretty self-reliant rather than a focused debuffer who needs other people to help with the killing part.
If you want to be a frontliner, then putting everything into CHA might not be the best thing to do. Sure, it bolsters your defenses, but adds little to offense. And depending on what kind of armor you're wearing, the max DEX of any armor still applies, even to your CHA.
Consider a Mithral Soothsayer's Raiment; it's not a really good armor (6 AC +1 enchantment bonus, 2 max DEX +2 from Mithral), but counts as Light Armor and allows you to get a Revelation from any Mystery (not just your own) as long as you have at least 1 Oracle level.
The insinuator archetype, which I like for this character gets essentially lays on hands, self only. The third level lets me suppress the sickened condition on myself because Covetous creates a risk of getting sickened for extended periods.
Generally speaking, there is no ability that allows you to remove the drawbacks of an Oracle's curse. Suppression for a short amount of time should be possible, but it really depends on your GM whether a Paladin's Mercy could be ruled that way: The ability says the condition is removed, not suppressed; on the other hand, it also says that the condition returns later, but 1 hour is a very long time for a suppression.
If your GM allows it, go ahead and ask whether the Cruelty feature of the non-archetype Antipaladin would cure the effects they bestow when Touch of Corruption is used on Undead. For in that case, just take a negative energy Oracle curse like Vampirism or Lich instead of the Insinuator archetype.
Though if you go for caster, a Heavens Oracle really is one of the most powerful casters: Awesome Display allows you to use low-level spells against high-level enemies, and Moonlight Bridge is just murderous combined with the Create Pit spell (if you can get it).
I too have a love hate mostly hate relationship with Paragon Surge. I can't deny its power, but it's just adds so many options that I kind of don't want to put it into play for fear of choice paralysis.
Some curses are already very good at 1st-level and add little of value to some character later - your Covetous curse is in fact such a curse; you could then take a curse with more benefits as your curse level progresses, e.g. Clouded Vision, Deep One, Lame, Legalistic, Possessed... . And the Misfortune revelation of the Dual-Cursed Oracle is one of the strongest revelations there is:
Oh I misread dual cursed on the reread and thought you got misfortune at 5th level instead of it being available from 1st. I think I'll still go Spirit Guide because it's a better fit and they don't stack, but it would be powerful.
The Raiment looks like it only gives a revelation from your own mystery, which I don't think compensates for it being bad armor otherwise.Sidenote why does the lunar mystery give the option of an animal companion that's actually a wild animal while the nature mystery only lets you take a domesticated beast of burden.
Maybe more of a balance between Str and Cha, though Smite Impudence helps a bit, maybe some other way to boost. I'd like the character to remain mostly suitable for polite society even in combat, so something like weretouched shifter is right out (this is also why I'm lukewarm on dragon disciple).
My read was you could suppress sickened for 1 hour with a use of selfish healing, remove the condition without curing the affliction. Swift action touch of corruption healing for undead seems fine but curing the conditions it can apply seems like a stretch to me, after all it's not like a paladin can debuff undead with their mercies.
Oh also I realized no, sidestep secret and nature's whispers are not equivalent: sidestep secret and prophetic armor gives AC and Reflex, Nature's Whispers gives AC & CMD. So no it's not fair to argue sidestep should give CMD, oops. Nature it is.
The Raiment looks like it only gives a revelation from your own mystery, which I don't think compensates for it being bad armor otherwise.
No, not quite. You can get a revelation from your own mystery without any further issues, but you can get a revelation from another mystery with Use Magic Device. The Raiment only forbids non-Oracles from using it, but as long as you are an Oracle, you are free to use UMD to emulate having the relevant mystery class feature.
Another good thing about that armor is, that it voids any level requirement of the revelation, i.e. even a 1st-level character (oracle) can wear that armor and use the revelation inside, even if it is an 11th-level revelation (or higher).There are also rules about combining Wondrous Items, so your GM might allow you to add the Raiment's power to another armor instead of tying it to a Chainmail.
Sidenote why does the lunar mystery give the option of an animal companion that's actually a wild animal while the nature mystery only lets you take a domesticated beast of burden.
Animal companions aren't a good choice for a multiclass usually, as their levels are tied to your Oracle level, not character level.