Enhancing magic weapons without a +1

[Koshimo]

I apologize for what may be a simple question.

I haven't played in years.

I am 99% sure there was a system released when unchained came out that said you could put special properties on a mw weapon or ammunition.

For example make mw flaming arrows instead of +1 flaming arrows.

Can anyone please confirm this system and hopefully with a link?

Thanks in advance and again sorry for a potentially stupid question

[Ryze Kuja]

In order to enchant any weapon, ammunition, armor, or shield with an Ability Enchant, like Flaming Sword or Flaming Arrows, it must first have a +1 Enchant.

Magic Weapons

Magic Weapons wrote:

Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

Generally speaking, putting enchants on ammunition is not recommended because it's expensive, because +1 Flaming Bows place their enchants upon mundane ammunition but will fire +1 Flaming Arrows every time, but if you enchant 50 arrows with +1 Flaming Arrow and then fire them from a Masterwork Bow, the magic arrow is destroyed in the process, so after the 50 arrows, you're back to firing mundane arrows again.

If you're a GM, you can give out +1 Flaming Arrows, and that's fine, but if you're a PC, you're better off spending the gold to upgrade your Bow with a +1 Flaming enchant.

[Koshimo]

Ryze Kuja wrote:

In order to enchant any weapon, ammunition, armor, or shield with an Ability Enchant, like Flaming Sword or Flaming Arrows, it must first have a +1 Enchant.

Magic Weapons

Magic Weapons wrote:

Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

Yes im aware of the regular rule.

I feel like im going crazy remembering they made an ammendment when unchained released that allowed you to skip that requirement

Generally speaking, putting enchants on ammunition is not recommended because it's expensive, because +1 Flaming Bows place their enchants upon mundane ammunition but will fire +1 Flaming Arrows every time, but if you enchant 50 arrows with +1 Flaming Arrow and then fire them from a Masterwork Bow, the magic arrow is destroyed in the process, so after the 50 arrows, you're back to firing mundane arrows again.

If you're a GM, you can give out +1 Flaming Arrows, and that's fine, but if you're a PC, you're better off spending the gold to upgrade your Bow with a +1 Flaming enchant.

[Firebug]

There are a few particular items that allow you to do so, like the Amulet of Mighty Fists. But that is not exactly what you are looking for I think.

If you just wanted flaming on whatever you use, there are the Demonic Smith's Gloves, but again not quite what you were looking for.

As far as Unchained systems go(because now as I reread your post, you were asking about a system...), I am pretty sure you are talking about Innate Item Bonuses. One of the side effects of baking in the 'normal' bonuses is that you don't need a specific enchantment (ir, +1) on a weapon... but you still pay for it. They even give an example of Keen (which is the same price as flaming): "For example, the keen ability is equivalent to a +1 bonus and would normally cost 2,000 gp. Under these rules, a keen falchion would gain a +1 bonus on top of its keen ability, and the cost would become 8,000 gp. "

Mechanics:

Under this system, weapons and armor are not forged with pure enhancement bonuses, and don’t need to have a +1 enhancement bonus to have a special ability. Instead, add up the effective enhancement bonus for the item’s special abilities, then assign the total to the item as its new enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. To find the new price, multiply the total cost of its original special abilities—not counting the new enhancement bonus—by 4.
...
Basically: Add up the effective + of the special abilities and multiple by 4, and it gets its + of special abilities as an enhancement bonus as well. So Flaming Arrows would be +1, so 2000 gp * 4 + MW portion = approximately 8k, or exactly the same price as they are now. Flaming Frost Arrows would be +2 and 32k under innate, or you could get +1 Flaming/Frost for 18k or +2 Flaming/Frost (also) 32k under the old system.

TL:DR, yes it exists... but you still pay for the +1(and more). It feels like they didn't like people taking straight +5s first because flat enhancement is better than 99% of actual other enchants. And also didn't want people taking straight specials, because reasons.

[Sandslice]

Koshimo wrote:

I apologize for what may be a simple question.

I haven't played in years.

I am 99% sure there was a system released when unchained came out that said you could put special properties on a mw weapon or ammunition.

For example make mw flaming arrows instead of +1 flaming arrows.

Can anyone please confirm this system and hopefully with a link?

Thanks in advance and again sorry for a potentially stupid question

Automatic bonus progression is what you are referring to.

[SheepishEidolon]

Koshimo wrote:

For example make mw flaming arrows instead of +1 flaming arrows.

If it's not Automatic Bonus Progression, you are probably talking about the Legacy Arrow from the Scaling Items system.

[Koshimo]

I feel like im getting sinbadded here.

I clearly remember them adding this option to building magic weapons and armor and now it feels like its gone in the wind.

Thanks for the replies everyone i obviously had a D&d fever dream at some point