Using Scrolls Above You Level?


Rules Discussion

Grand Lodge

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My searchfu found some threads back during the playtest, but nothing recent nor definitive. Did Paizo ever clarify the intent with casting spells from scrolls if the spell is on your list but is a level higher than you can use on your own? I know the GM can limit access to scrolls to prevent a wish from falling into the hands of a 1st level PC, but if it did would the PC be able to cast it?

Lantern Lodge

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I couldn't find anything restricting you from casting a spell on a scroll of a higher level than you can cast.

The following snippets of rules seem to govern:

"The spell on the scroll is cast at a particular spell level, as determined by the scroll."

AND

"To Cast a Spell from a scroll, the spell must appear on your spell list. Because you’re the one Casting the Spell, use your spell attack roll and spell DC. The spell also gains the appropriate trait for your tradition (arcane, divine, occult, or primal)."

I checked the definition of spell list and it doesn't seem to impose a limitation in terms of level:

"Spellcasters cast spells from one of four different spell lists, each representing a different magical tradition: arcane, divine, occult, and primal.

Your class determines which tradition of magic your spells use. In some cases, such as when a cleric gains spells from their deity or when a sorcerer gets spells from their bloodline, you might be able to cast spells from a different spell list. In these cases, the spell uses your magic tradition, not the list the spell normally comes from. When you cast a spell, add your tradition’s trait to the spell."

So unless someone finds something, I think you just need to have the spell on your spell list and you're good to go!

This makes a dip into a magic using class nice. You only get 2 cantrips, BUT you gain the ability to use scrolls of spells on that magic using class's spell list.

Sczarni

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That is indeed a huge benefit of taking a spellcasting archetype.

FWIW, I've been at several tables where this question surfaced (usually when finding high level scrolls as loot) and the answer always starts with a little bit of disbelief, continues with finding the same text that Cpt Zoom quoted, and ends with a shrug and a "sure".

I think what makes this not overpowering is using your spellcasting DC. A scroll of fireball in the hands of a 3rd level Wizard is certainly exciting, but a DC 19 Basic Reflex sorta douses that in cold water.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also the way wealth works buying scrolls above the level you can cast them is really only feasible for multi class casters who haven’t kept up with the spell casting feats. For every other character, you are probably only getting a level or two bump at most from a found scroll, but the added benefit is that GMs can leave McGuffin scrolls around to let a low level party have a chance to do something special in an adventure. In PFS though MC casters can do a lot with scrolls.

Grand Lodge

Org Play eliminates this problem by not allowing you to purchase items above your level. It was not something I had previously researched for my home campaign and a situation arose where a dispel magic was needed by the second level PCs. Seems like as long as you find or can afford the item, the only limitation is the GM making it available to them. A first level wizard could theoretically cast power word kill.

At first I was a bit concerned about this, but it actually gives me a lot more flexibility as a GM since I can do thing to the PCs that they ordinarily couldn't do much about, but I can make a scroll available to them that is beyond their level to correct the problem. Very interesting change in the rules. I wonder if it was intentional or if the designer responsible for magic and scrolls missed it due to rules-overload. Either way, I'm liking it

Horizon Hunters

In a home game it's totally reasonable for a party to pool their money together to purchase a high level Remove Curse or something to get rid of the cursed item one of them accidentally put on. Maybe the local lord is willing to give them one of his scrolls for a favor or something. Get creative, but remember that higher level items are supposed to be more and more rare. For example, there's probably only a few dozen canonically level 20 NPCs roaming around Golarion at any given time, and having too many in your home game can overwhelm the PCs. Unless you are intending to make them to feel underpowered...

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TwilightKnight wrote:
Org Play eliminates this problem by not allowing you to purchase items above your level.

This CAN still happen in Society play, if the party finds such a scroll as treasure. Granted, that seems to be fairly rare.

Grand Lodge

The point is that Paizo has control over it as opposed to the players who have free reign to buy whatever they want up to their level. Sure, they could drop a power word kill in a low-tier adventure, but they don't. The closest thing I've seen to this topic is a greater salve of antiparalysis given to the PCs to be specifically used on an NPC as part of the plot so it wasn't loot for the PCs. It would be a problem if players had the freedom to buy whatever they could afford because some would save up for items a few levels above their character. Thankfully, its just not a problem. I was just surprised (and happy) by the rule as it is.


Imo, it's actually really cool that you can cast higher level scrolls. An overleveled scroll makes for some really cool loot.

As others have mentioned, there's already rules for purchasing items in pfs, which draw from rules in the crb, so it's not like you need to worry about your level 5 Wizard casting 5th level fireballs unless you let them


Above-level scrolls are too expensive for this to become an issue if you keep treasure rates normal, and don't readjust them because somebody burnt it all on consumables! That's on them, trading an easy win for a harder future.

Grand Lodge

Consumables is one of the best ways for a GM to control power creep


Yeah, its hard for me to see between availability and cost this being much of a problem.

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