All of the pets!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


This is completely for shiggles. Throwing this out both for those who love "pet" class features, but also as a theory crafting challenge for those of you who may hate them, but like to crunch the numbers.

I'm wondering if it's possible to build a character who has all the different "pet" class features and is able to still contribute effectively in a group. I get that these builds are usually disfavored for the complication, book keeping headaches, and uneven play time; like I said, this is just theory.

So, a build with a familiar, an Animal companion, an Eidolon, and a phantom I think. Bounus points if you can get specifically a mount that is seperate from the AC. Also curious if you can get a spirit familiar separate from a standard one. So, minimum 4 critters, max 6? Are there more I'm missing. The various multiple same class feature critter archetypes, are I think a no go for this build (excepting maybe as a way to do mount and AC). Also be cool if each critter/pet fulfilled a specific role as a helper/ally/tool.

Whatcha got?


Familiars and animal companions are available via feats (Familiar bond or wasp familiar or eldritch heritage (arcane), animal ally) as well as class features or domains. Phantom is only available as a class feature, a weak eidolon can come via VMC summoner or the full strength ones are a class feature.

So; spiritualist or ghost rider cavalier or death druid is the class. With all your feats going to pets you need a solid base class, let's go with the death druid (possibly also menhir savant archetype for a little CL bonus). Human for the bonus feat. You worship Calistria. VMC summoner.

feats:
1: Nature soul
Human: Wasp familiar (figment & sage archetypes)
5: Animal ally
9: Boon companion (animal companion)
13: Sage's guidance
17: Figment's fluidity

The animal companion can be your mount; a horse probably. It also kicks enemies in melee. The familiar is the brains of the group and a disposable scout, oddly. The eidolon is going to be a meat shield. The phantom (fear emotional focus) can sneak, walk through walls, and scare people in melee. Lust emotional focus might be more appropriate for a Calistrian but that intrudes on the eidolon's role. As for you, you're going to be busy buffing all of these.

The familiar and phantom are there from 1st level, the animal companion from 5th (though it's not of use in melee until 9th), the eidolon from 7th level.


Half Elf Sacred Huntsmaster Inquisitor
Feather Domain
Eldritch Heritage(Arcane)
Boon Companion(At 5th)
Improved Familiar at 9th(Upgrade Cockroach to a Mephit or something and use wands)

Grizzly Bear Companion as a mount.
Giant Owl Companion as a flying mount/attacker/flying scout
Figment Cockroach(Gets evolution points!) familiar as indoor scout and stealth machine

Alternatively...

Half Elf Death Druid
Nature Spirit, Animal Ally, Boon Companion
Eldritch Heritage(Arcane)
Summon Guardian Spirit feat

Feat intense but...
Phantom as primary combatant
Animal Companion as a mount
Figment Familiar Cockroach as a indoor scout
Guardian Spirit summons a caster familiar


Cool. So, short hand, this is doable. I need to look into Death Druid to see if it appeals to me on the flavor side.

Am I seeing correctly that these builds involve little (no?) multiclassing?


Sysryke wrote:

Cool. So, short hand, this is doable. I need to look into Death Druid to see if it appeals to me on the flavor side.

Am I seeing correctly that these builds involve little (no?) multiclassing?

Depends on what level you want these to go to. If it's an actual character for a campaign, I think both of the builds I posted are viable. If it's a one shot at a specific level, you could do a Spiritualist or Death Druid multi class with the Phantom Ally feat.

Huntsmaster looks fun and strong, Death Druid instantly wins vs anything that can't deal with an Incorporeal creature and is a Full Caster.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Back in 2016, I wrote:

Quote:

The courtly hunter 16/cavalier 4 with Skill Focus (any one Knowledge skill), Eldritch Heritage (Arcane), Boon Companion (on the courtly companion), Horse Master, and Leadership would have:

A full power courtly companion
A full power mount from a limited list
A familiar as an 18th level sorcerer*
A cohort (at either -2 or -6 to the Leadership Score, depending on whether or not the GM stacks the penalty for each "pet")

You could also add VMC summoner for a weakened eidolon on top of that, for four "pets" and a cohort (possibly at -8 to the Leadership Score); five total secondary characters, all rules legal (outside of PFS, at least). You'd have no other available feats, other than a bonus feat at 1st level from race and/or any from class features, though; a human with the Focused Study alternate racial trait would gain two additional Skill Focus feats (at 8th and 16th) and still have their 1st level feat available.

Alternately, a summoner 20 (VMC druid) with Skill Focus (any one Knowledge skill), Eldritch Heritage (Arcane), and Leadership would have:

A full power eidolon
A full power animal companion
A familiar as an 18th level sorcerer*
A cohort (as above)

*- using a feat on Boon Companion on the familiar for +1 natural armor and +1 Int isn't worth it, IMO

Note, you could replace Leadership with Recruits and be able to "switch out" the cohort currently accompanying the character between adventures.

Also note, another poster in the 2016 thread came up with:

CBDunkerson wrote:

Spiritualist 20 = 20th level phantom

Animal Ally + Boon Companion = 20th level animal companion
Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) + Robe of Arcane Heritage = 20th level familiar
VMC Summoner = 20th level eidolon (nerfed)
Leadership = 18th level cohort

Generally speaking, you tend to hit a limit at about 4-5 "pets" as you run out of available feats.


Sysryke wrote:

Cool. So, short hand, this is doable. I need to look into Death Druid to see if it appeals to me on the flavor side.

Am I seeing correctly that these builds involve little (no?) multiclassing?

Zip for mine, besides the variant multiclass into summoner. I thought about doing normal multiclassing and getting feats like phantom ally but it narrows the level range where the character works to the point where it looked embarrassing.


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If you do prefer normal multiclassing to variant, there is one archetype which could help. Totem spiritualists get 'phantom animals' whose levels stack with those of a druid. Totem spiritualist 1 / elemental ally druid X with the magical enigma feat can have a phantom animal at full level and one weak eidolon (at a time) also at full level. Then pick up a familiar and an animal companion via feats if you want.

(no, I can't sleep)


Thank you all so much for your input.

I don't know if I'll ever have a game where I could actually try this build without driving my fellow players mad, but I'm glad to know it's possible.

Like all the options I'm seeing, but specifiacally to @avr, I prefer to multiclass as little as possible as a general rule, so thanks for that.


Isn't it easier to just take several animal companions instead of all the pets?


Theaitetos wrote:
Isn't it easier to just take several animal companions instead of all the pets?

Sure. But sometimes you just want to see if you CAN do something fun but difficult rather than something easy.


Yep yep. This is purely about having all the different kinds. Not about ease or optimization.


There are a few companions that are outside the standard, Antipaladin gets a permanent summon, Shadowdancer gets a shadow, Stonelord gets an earth elemental. There's probably others as well, unfortunately they are harder to tack onto a build than the more traditional ones.

I recommend spending your animal companion and phantom feats to get your companions familiars and animal companions. Once you hit 5th level, each pet gets their own full pet stacking to infinity, you can go "Town Musician's of Bremen" or lock it in with a "Turtles all the Way Down", they sky is not the limit.


ErichAD wrote:

There are a few companions that are outside the standard, Antipaladin gets a permanent summon, Shadowdancer gets a shadow, Stonelord gets an earth elemental. There's probably others as well, unfortunately they are harder to tack onto a build than the more traditional ones.

I recommend spending your animal companion and phantom feats to get your companions familiars and animal companions. Once you hit 5th level, each pet gets their own full pet stacking to infinity, you can go "Town Musician's of Bremen" or lock it in with a "Turtles all the Way Down", they sky is not the limit.

Just revisiting old ideas/friends.

So, is it possible? Could you get a familiar, an AC, a phantom, an eidolon, plus the shadow, the earth elemental, and the permanent summon? That's 7 different pets. Do any of those features count as the same class feature, and therefore stack/fuse?

And again, can you get a Mount, distinct and separate from an AC? I suppose you could just buy and train a horse with handle animal. So do I hear 8 pets?

I appreciate the cohort/leadership builds, but I'm trying not to count people as "pets". Though . . . if you have to go Anti-Paladin as part of this build . . . . ? ? ?


avr wrote:

Familiars and animal companions are available via feats (Familiar bond or wasp familiar or eldritch heritage (arcane), animal ally) as well as class features or domains. Phantom is only available as a class feature, a weak eidolon can come via VMC summoner or the full strength ones are a class feature.

So; spiritualist or ghost rider cavalier or death druid is the class. With all your feats going to pets you need a solid base class, let's go with the death druid (possibly also menhir savant archetype for a little CL bonus). Human for the bonus feat. You worship Calistria. VMC summoner.
** spoiler omitted **
The animal companion can be your mount; a horse probably. It also kicks enemies in melee. The familiar is the brains of the group and a disposable scout, oddly. The eidolon is going to be a meat shield. The phantom (fear emotional focus) can sneak, walk through walls, and scare people in melee. Lust emotional focus might be more appropriate for a Calistrian but that intrudes on the eidolon's role. As for you, you're going to be busy buffing all of these.

The familiar and phantom are there from 1st level, the animal companion from 5th (though it's not of use in melee until 9th), the eidolon from 7th level.

So, I'm revisiting and necroing an old idea of mine. Unfortunately, I finally read Spiritualist, and Phantoms absolutely refuse to come out when Eidolons are around. (Now I'm wondering if you can even have a Summoner and Spiritualist as separate characters with both pets active in the same party!? Surely it's not that restrictive!)

So, at least by the base class mechanics, no Eidolon and Phantom on the same character. Are there any archetypes, feats, traits, items, or spells that can get around this?


the problem with class pets is; a) the class pays for them thus the PC takes a power hit. b) they are never as good as PC party members.

I like the PFS ruling that you can only have one combat active pet per adventure. It simplifies the pet/undead/charmed monster issue. The rest of the menagerie can't participate in combat.
For Home Games it's a way to gain some power but usually it is just a collection of speed bumps. I wouldn't object to it in a home game where the GM has more control. Just if/when the GM offs the sidekicks he risks some name calling.
=====

Spiritualist Class
Phantom:
Phantoms are self-involved, even jealous, creatures that do not play well with other summoned companions. A phantom refuses to manifest (either fully or as part of a bonded manifestation; see Bonded Manifestation on page 74) in the presence of an eidolon or shadow summoned by the phantom's master. Furthermore, if a phantom is manifested when such a creature is summoned, it immediately retreats into its spiritualist's consciousness, and will not manifest again until the eidolon or shadow is dismissed.
so NO, the phantom will manifest with another character's eidolon or shadow about, just not the master's. You can not take the last line out of context.
Shadow Conjuration:I4, on the spirtualist spell list, would be the spell to be careful with. Not a very good spell.


Since this thread got necro-ed, I'll toss in my recommendation.

Race: Half-Elf (*Duskwalker*)
Alternate Racial Trait: Multidisciplined (Druid, Spiritualist)
Alignment: Neutral Good/True Neutral
Classes: Druid 16/Spiritualist 4 VMC Cleric
Archetypes: Elemental Ally/Totem Spiritualist
Deity: Sarenrae
Granted Domain: Chivlary Inquistion (Mount Class feature)
Important Feats: 1-*Racial Heritage* (Duskwalker), 5-Personal Chronicler, 9-Boon Companion*
*(If the GM allows Boon Companion to effect Eidolons. If not, optimize the hell out of those Eidolons. Consider taking Summon Guardian Spirit if Boon Companion is not an option.)
Traits: Magical Knack (Spiritualist), Bifurcated Magic (Druid, Spiritualist); consider a drawback to get access to Use Magic Device
Total Caster Level Boosts: +2 Druid, +3 Spiritualist

Level Progression should look something like this:
1- Druid 1 (CL D1) [4 Eidolons]
-- Feat: Racial Heritage
2- Spiritualist 1 (CL D2/S2) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom]
3- Druid 2 (CL D3/S3) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount]
-- VMC Domain: Chivalry Inquisition
4- Druid 3 (CL D4/S4) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount]
5- Druid 4 (CL D5/S4) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount + 1 Familiar]
-- Feat: Personal Chronicler
6- Druid 5 (CL D6/S4) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount + 1 Familiar]
7- Druid 6 (CL D7/S4) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount + 1 Familiar]
8- Spiritualist 2 (CL D8/S5) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount + 1 Familiar]
9- Druid 7 (CL D9/S5) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount + 1 Familiar]
-- Feat: Boon Companion
10 - Spiritualist 3 (CL D9/S6) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount + 1 Familiar]
11 - Spiritualist 4 (CL D9/S7) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount + 1 Familiar]
12+ - Druid 8+ (CL D10+/S7) [4 Eidolons + 1 Phantom + 1 Mount + 1 Familiar]
------
15 - (See if your GM will allow you to trade off the 8th level Inquisition ability for access to Sarenrae's Divine Fighting Technique, as you lack a Judgement class feature and the rules for the Divine Fighting Technique allow for swapping out a lower level domain power for access to the feat).

Tips: At level 12 and beyond, you are purely leveling Druid. You should be maxing out Use Magic Device, and making use of it to support your allies. You should be making use of your familiar to deliver touch spells to allies you cannot otherwise reach. The biggest tip I can offer is this: DO NOT ABUSE HAVING SO MANY COMPANIONS. You will eventually have FOUR independent characters you are controlling, including yourself. That's pretty much an entire self-contained party. You chose to do this, so get prepared to delegate. Train your Phantom Animal or Mount (Familiar can be ordered, it's smart) to serve another PC, and let the OTHER PLAYER give them orders so they act on their turn.

Eidolons: Specialize each of them for different movement types and roles. Fire is meant for speed and guerilla combat (Quadruped). Air is meant for climbing (eventually flying?) and scouting (Serpentine). Earth is meant for defense and power (Biped). Water is meant for swimming and battlefield control (Aberrant). Consider making it possible for one, or more, of you Eidolons are capable of serving as a mount for you or another player character (consider taking the Defending Eidolon feat as one of your character feats). Take Obedience feats with the Eidolons if you want. You can get Trapfinding or Damage Reduction through these methods.

Phantom: This will be (most likely) your most powerful 'summon', especially if you can't use Boon Companion to boost your Eidolons. Optimize it. It doesn't get the high(er) Intelligence that Eidolons get, so you need to bump its Intelligence so it can pick any feat, and you will need to occasionally issue it orders, which can take a free action or up to a move action depending. Do not neglect your Handle Animal skill.

Mount: This class feature is self-explanatory. Either you (or someone else) will be using this companion as a mount (see the Serve trick). You will be issuing orders, do not neglect Handle Animal. Consider the Intercept Blow feat.

Familiar: You can go in widely different directions with this. Protector, Figment, Mascot, or whatever you need. It just comes with the downside of having to shun undead and refusing to work with them.

Spellcasting: Your caster level is fine in the beginning but eventually you will fall behind a bit, and your spell level access will be stunted. But you don't need to worry about that. Your job is to give orders and direct your minions in the fight, buff them and your allies (Mage armor goes a LOOOOONG way for Eidolons and Phantom), and save your other spell slots for emergency healing (spontaneous cure AND summon nature's ally for the instances that you lose an Eidolon or Phantom). If all you have to do in combat is shoot a crossbow or misc ranged touch attack, you are doing your job.

Skills: Handle Animal and Use Magic Device are important to you. Perception and Survival are smart to take as well. Spellcraft if you can afford it. Everything else should get at least one rank if its a class skill.

Gear: Wands, scrolls, staves, and potions. You want whatever misc magical items you can get your hands on. The only critter you will be outfitting with gear (other than yourself) is your Mount, with an extra saddle or whenever you summon an Eidolon or Phantom. The Share Slot evolution will be useful so you can give gear to your Eidolons and still make use of your own.

FINAL TIP: Don't try to build this character in Herolab Online. You'll reach the complexity limit by level 8. Herolab Classic (offline) is your only hope.

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