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Ok, I thought this was an interesting line in the playtest document. For whatever reasons, in my first reading it was one of the things that stood out to me as part of the core concept for the class.
After saying this, I want to point out that it seems like this is actually, sort of Inventor's weak spot. Their perception starts out trained, and they only advance finally at 13th level to expert which is where Investigators, Rangers, Rogues, Barbarians all start out at first level.
If one of the common elements of many investigators adventuring is to gather data about their inventions, wouldn't one expect to see their perception be a bit better?
Honestly, I'd think something like the ranger progression, or even the Barbarian progression, which starts good but doesn't advance for some time.
And, yes this is based on feeling based on reading the advancement, not based on specific playtest data.
Anyone else feel like the inventor should be better at noticing details around them?
I like the idea of int to Per, but I'm not sure if I favor it to simply getting a faster progression.
I'm fine starting trained and going to master and using wis. It let's people choose their flavor of inventors; ranging from real life examples, who often come across their inspiration through observing the world around them by having a higher wis, to a mad scientist, who tend to be more stuck in their own genius, and are typically not very observant and prone to hyperfixation (and probably spend those wis ranks into con instead, better for surviving those experiment failures they almost certainly endured)
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I would absolutely not expect Inventor to have good Perception. Relevant character tropes: being distracted by considering improvements, focusing on their work to the exclusion of all else, and being poor at reading people (or uninterested in doing so). I actually have difficulty thinking of a class I would expect to have worse Perception.
Gathering data on their inventions isn't something I'd put under Perception, but Crafting or a specialized Lore.
Wizards and Alchemists, the most thematically similar classes (in my opinion), both start trained and get late advancement in Perception. Inventor is a little later than both, which seems appropriate to me.
Could their be room for a feat or feature that models being hyper focused on something? Declare something you are already aware of as an 'experiment' and gain some level of bonus to Perception.
Not that I think real world science should be a benchmark for what my fantasy engineer can build, but claiming an inventor should br imperceptive is really off base for actual invention and study.
Like, I'm not saying the class should be like rogue or fighter or whatever, where split seconds determine if you live or die, but inventors and scientists often find clues simply by noticing things. Like, windshield wipers were invented because someone noticed people were having trouble seeing in rain and snow and asked "how can fix this?" Sticky notes exist because someone mucked up making a new type of glue, but noticed that while it wasn't the super strong adhesive that was intended, the resulting substance was still good for temporary bonds that didn't damage surfaces.
Like, really, its kinda off base to claim that inventors as a general rule are always off on their own world
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Honestly, I was mostly surprised about their poor Perception proficiency because I had assumed that the Inventor was the guy you would expect to deal with (at least non-magical) traps, thanks to their knowledge of complicated mechanisms and the like. As of right now, they can still do it by investing in Thievery but actually spotting the traps requires a lot of help from other party members. It feels a bit strange to me because I would have thought that they would be the type of character with an eye for detail.
So, I watched the interview with Mark and Mike on Know Direction, and the low per is very much on purpose to represent being lost in your notes and such.
Now, I'm still not sold on the notion that perception doesn't cover things like noticing problems or finding something thats normally overlooked, but if we take dubious scholars stance and let recall knowledge and such to cover it, I can accept it with no issue. It works well to represent someone who might be really inspired by a specific topic (idk, maybe animals, and their armor suit features a lot of structures represented in nature to get it's cool powers) to take additional lore and just go off with it.
I do think we could probably reconcile a little in the trap departnebt by just giving the inventor a special trap finder feat that gives them a bonus to find traps and secret door, or let them use crafting to find such things, but limit it to at least partially mechanical traps, and not things like magic glyphs and the like.
So, I watched the interview with Mark and Mike on Know Direction, and the low per is very much on purpose to represent being lost in your notes and such.
Now, I'm still not sold on the notion that perception doesn't cover things like noticing problems or finding something thats normally overlooked, but if we take dubious scholars stance and let recall knowledge and such to cover it, I can accept it with no issue. It works well to represent someone who might be really inspired by a specific topic (idk, maybe animals, and their armor suit features a lot of structures represented in nature to get it's cool powers) to take additional lore and just go off with it.
I do think we could probably reconcile a little in the trap departnebt by just giving the inventor a special trap finder feat that gives them a bonus to find traps and secret door, or let them use crafting to find such things, but limit it to at least partially mechanical traps, and not things like magic glyphs and the like.
That might be an interesting idea, a feat like Natural Medicine. Allow the use of Crafting checks to replace thievery checks for traps with mechanical components. (can still be magical, as long as they have mechanical aspects as well) I'm inclined to suggest they might even be able to use it to replace perception checks for such traps, but maybe that might be seen as too powerful. (natural medicine only replaces one type of check) Or maybe it could be 2 different feats. One allowing crafting to replace thievery checks with traps, the other allowing the use of crafting to replace perception, for the same sorts of mechanical traps.
A "use craft for perception to spot mechanical traps and for thievery for Disable Device and Pick A Lock" feat sounds on par with versatile performance, a level 1 class feat that does 3 substitutions to perform. Definately too strong for a skill feat, or at least a skill feat low enough level to make the inventor trap springer viable for low level concepts
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A "use craft for perception to spot mechanical traps and for thievery for Disable Device and Pick A Lock" feat sounds on par with versatile performance, a level 1 class feat that does 3 substitutions to perform. Definately too strong for a skill feat, or at least a skill feat low enough level to make the inventor trap springer viable for low level concepts
You beat me to it. This is exactly what I was thinking as well. My Bard loves Versatile Performance and having an equivalent for crafting like this makes the most sense to me. Really hope they make this happen.
I really enjoy VP and similar feats because it lets you expand out the utility of of your class in thematically potent ways, but not necessarily requiring you to be a rogue, or multiclass into rogue.
Like, VP makes a bard feel really good in social situations despite not having any more skill points than, say, a sorcerer, and I think this would help the inventor in a similar way. I'm also just a huge sucker for out of combat versatility