A friend of mine asked me for some advice about the Rise of the Runelords campaign he is running where the party have gone... a bit chaotic evil.
Nearing the end of the first book the party have caused issues in Sandpoint, to the point where they were conspiring to and assaulting town members over various arguments. They were given an ultimatum by the Sheriff that if they continued with their actions they'd be de-deputized and removed from the case they were being paid to help with. They continued, and at the end of the last session the Sheriff followed through with his threats, and now the party is planning to attack and pillage Sandpoint.
At this point in the story they should be eradicating a goblin tribe nearby and moving towards Magnimar. My friend is at a loss for what to do, because despite his best efforts to build extra encounters and rp scenarios to allow the party to make amends with Sandpoint, they've dug in their heels and ignored all of these options. I've already suggested that they sit down out of character as a group and talk about why they hate sandpoint and if Rise of the Runelords is the right AP for them at the moment. Failing that, how should the GM handle going forward?
My first thought was that he dangle some powerful MacGuffin that would help them destroy the town, or perhaps dangle cooperation with the nearby goblin tribe in doing so, then have the Sheriff show up with powerful backup from Magnimar who then arrests the team and drags them kicking and screaming to Magnimar, but that feels like a slap on the wrist that won't actually push them in the right direction. It wouldn't be a problem if the defense of Sandpoint weren't literally the entire driving factor of the AP...
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My thought is ditch the campaign and start Way of the Wicked or Hell's Vengeance. It sounds like those players want to play selfish or evil characters. Nothing the GM can do can make those types of characters (players) fit into Rise of the Runelords. The whole point with starting in Sandpoint was the PCs were meant to care about their "home home", with that providing enough motivation to protect it.
APs are definitely campaigns where the players and GMs need to “buy in” to the premise before the first session. “The PCs care about Sandpoint and want to protect it” is the baseline premise of the whole campaign, and if players aren’t willing to work with that, it’ll be very challenging to salvage the campaign.
Sometimes players used to a true “anything goes” sandbox campaign have difficulty with APs.
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Hey there Soul.
First, I feel like the GM and players need to have an out-of-game talk as to whether this is the sort of game they all want to play. If it isn't, they're going to need to talk out what would actually be fun for everyone and then do that instead. If it is, proceed:
If they accept either condition, she can ask them to locate Malfeshnekor and give them a chance to sweep Thistletop, doing the Shadows and Giant Crab encounters and potentially finding the hidden path to Malfeshnekor's prison. Once they open the prison and realize Malfeshnekor cannot be freed except (effectively) through divine intervention, Nualia will realize there's no more waiting and that it's time to turn her sights on Sandpoint.
At this point, Nualia will explain some of her hatred for Sandpoint, as well as the fact that she cannot enter the town without automatically being recognized. As such, she asks the party to do a bit of reconnaissance, specifically to identify who Sandpoint's greatest defenders would be. She also requests that they figure out what it would take to capture Hannah Valerin, the local surgeon, alive.
If the party agrees to this request, the day after they return to Sandpoint, the first Skinsaw murder occurs in Sandpoint. Aldern has noticed the vile attitude of his favored PC and seeks to emulate it, which he might mention in subsequent notes. More likely than not, the PCs choose to ignore this murder (given they're certainly not conscripted to help), but suspicion quickly turns on them, and whoever was named in the note is called in for questioning.
Rather than helping prevent further murders, the party can either get into 'raiding and pillaging Sandpoint' mode with Nualia, or wait to see what happens with the serial killings. Soon enough, either humans or goblins (Licktoads) fleeing from the hinterlands make their way to whatever location the PCs are at to talk about the ghoul attacks. Particularly clever PCs (or those who investigate the Sanitorium, perhaps), may recognize the mortal threat a ghoul attack poses to Sandpoint, and either intervene . . . or let it happen.
On the night of the ghoul attack, Nualia makes her move, surrounding the town with goblins to pick off anyone who attempts to flee before personally slaughtering the surviving ghouls alongside the PCs. Infected townsfolk who were left alive are assembled on a pyre to be burned. And the Skinsaw Man makes his appearance, offering his beloved eternal life by his side.
That's as far as I've gotten for this conversion, but if anyone's interested in my campaign-long look at Lamashtu's plans for the region, I detail them in this thread.
Yeah, I feel like the AP's foundation is lost by the sounds of it. Either the group doesn't respect the DM, or simply not willing to follow along for the sake of the story. I further imagine as a DM it would be very frustrated to have prepped, and then have it all go out the window over and over.
I agree a conversation should be had at least, if playing with real friends and starting a new MODULE. If it was a pick up online group, I would part ways and start a whole new group. For any DM, I feel it is very important to lay out ground rules clearly, and specific goals in character creation for a AP.
If the players don't want to play save the world or be hero's then a Module that is more flexible role play wise, it can at least allow the DM to rail road the situation a bit, and have shorter rails planning wise. Large pre written campaigns require respect of all involved as they can take years to complete.
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Yeah, I feel like the AP's foundation is lost by the sounds of it. Either the group doesn't respect the DM, or simply not willing to follow along for the sake of the story. I further imagine as a DM it would be very frustrated to have prepped, and then have it all go out the window over and over.
I agree a conversation should be had at least, if playing with real friends and starting a new MODULE. If it was a pick up online group, I would part ways and start a whole new group. For any DM, I feel it is very important to lay out ground rules clearly, and specific goals in character creation for a AP.
If the players don't want to play save the world or be hero's then a Module that is more flexible role play wise, it can at least allow the DM to rail road the situation a bit, and have shorter rails planning wise. Large pre written campaigns require respect of all involved as they can take years to complete.
I think the 'come to the AP' conversation has to be had. Here's an idea about how to start.
DM: 'Guys, I know you are having fun, but I'm at an impasse here. Your characters have to be the 'good guys' or this campaign doesn't work anymore. If you don't want to play good characters, that's the end of this game. I need to know this now, and I can't have backsliding.
'Are you in with me about what our common expectations for this game are and will be?'
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Actually the AP works pretty well with bad guys too, as long as they want to protect their Sandpoint. Even if only because they are a gang of thugs and it is their turf to mess with.but it's not working for the DM.
making him unhappy for the sake of murderhobo players isn't fair.
I see nothing saying the GM would be unhappy with Evil PCs. Just that they were at a loss of how to continue the AP with such a change from the usual motivation of PCs.
PCs who are not interested in protecting Sandpoint are indeed very hard to motivate with the AP as written. Evil protectors not so much.