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I don't see any reason to think it wouldn't still be large. Or any reason that you shouldn't be able to shift it into a polearm, outside of a narrower table reading of "with a similar form" than I've seen most people make.
The shifting part from what I've seen people will allow a weapon to go from one to any other weapon that requires the same number of hands, as long as it's melee to melee or ranged to ranged. That's the most permissive version I've seen.
It might be too permissive, but I with what you're paying I think it's probably fair.
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Shifting is specifically melee weapons only:The shifting part from what I've seen people will allow a weapon to go from one to any other weapon that requires the same number of hands, as long as it's melee to melee or ranged to ranged. That's the most permissive version I've seen.
It might be too permissive, but I with what you're paying I think it's probably fair.
Source Core Rulebook pg. 585 2.0Magical, Transmutation
Price 225 gp
Usage etched onto a melee weapon
With a moment of manipulation, you can shift this weapon into a different weapon with a similar form.
Activate Single Action Interact; Effect The weapon takes the shape of another melee weapon that requires the same number of hands to wield. The weapon’s runes and any precious material it’s made of apply to the weapon’s new shape. Any property runes that can’t apply to the new form are suppressed until the item takes a shape to which they can apply.
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Yes, it stays the same size. People have argued that you can change sizes with it (for example, a Large Bastard Sword to a Tiny Dagger) which to me makes no sense.
Actually I started a recent thread about this and came to the conclusion that you cannot change Sizes with it because it would allow you to get a huge discount on weapons made of special materials (a very good argument from an older thread).
I would like for us to one day get a Rune that allows temporary changes in Size for a weapon though.
Actually I started a recent thread about this and came to the conclusion that you cannot change Sizes with it because it would allow you to get a huge discount on weapons made of special materials (a very good argument from an older thread).
I don't recall a general consensus nor is there an issue with size reduction and reducing size. Even changing form in the same size can grant you big discounts so I don't see the issue: put shifting an spiked chain, then change it to a greatsword and you saved yourself a bulk worth of materials [up to 10,000 gp worth of discount]. So it's similar to a change to large. Biggers weapons are irrelevant as there aren't any rules for wielding them and because of that you can't change the weapon into them as you have to keep the same number of hands to wield it to use the ability.
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Actually I started a recent thread about this and came to the conclusion that you cannot change Sizes with it because it would allow you to get a huge discount on weapons made of special materials (a very good argument from an older thread).I don't recall a general consensus nor is there an issue with size reduction and reducing size. Even changing form in the same size can grant you big discounts so I don't see the issue: put shifting an spiked chain, then change it to a greatsword and you saved yourself a bulk worth of materials [up to 10,000 gp worth of discount]. So it's similar to a change to large. Biggers weapons are irrelevant as there aren't any rules for wielding them and because of that you can't change the weapon into them as you have to keep the same number of hands to wield it to use the ability.
I meant that the argument convinced me ;-)
And I was definitely interested in Shifting being usable to change Sizes for my Paladin MC barbarian (Giant).
Concerning your interesting example (really), imagine how much worse it would be if shifting a Tiny spiked chain into a Gargantuan greatsword.
Concerning your interesting example (really), imagine how much worse it would be if shifting a Tiny spiked chain into a Gargantuan greatsword.
Tiny doesn't alter the cost [1 bulk if the minimum cost]: A negligible bulk weapon costs as much as a 1 bulk one. As to greater than Large, as I pointed out, there is no rules for wielding them and to change into something you need enough hands to wield them: Since the game doesn't allow it, you can't change it into any greater size UNLESS the DM specifically allows it: dm fiat.
So... savings didn't change in the least. To move it to Huge+, you'd have to find something that allows you to wield Huge+ weapons. ;)
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You just need to give it to a Large Giant Instinct Barbarian, who can shift it to Huge. And so on.
But there is actually no limit in Shifting based on Size : "The weapon takes the shape of another melee weapon that requires the same number of hands to wield."
A Gargantuan greatsword requires 2 hands to wield. Just as a Tiny spiked chain does.
So, if Shifting can change the Size of the weapon, there is nothing in the RAW that puts limits on the Size change.
You just need to give it to a Large Giant Instinct Barbarian, who can shift it to Huge. And so on.
Why would it change?
But there is actually no limit in Shifting based on Size : "The weapon takes the shape of another melee weapon that requires the same number of hands to wield."
Yes, "requires the same number of hands to wield". What is the same number of hands needed from the perspective of the user? How many hands does THAT USER need to wield a Gargantuan greatsword? Since you can't answer that, you can't shift it. Where you see no RAW that prevents it, I see no RAW that allows it.
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The rules do exist for wielding a weapon of size large. They clearly do take the same number of hands. So that is all the shifting rune explicitly requires. Based on the absense of further rules it is fair to say that you simply cannot wield even larger weapons (without getting into further enlarge magics). Its all a little vague as the rules are just by implication here.
However I do not see a additional exploit here. If you convert your adamantine medium size stiletto into a size large sword. Fine. Its not really any different that doing medium to medium.
All the GM has to decide is if the shifting rune has a continuous effect or what happens if you remove it. But when you read the description of Shifting particularly the comment about surpressing inappropriate runes it does seem to me that runes are a long duration effect.
Therefore when you melt down your sword to reuse the adamantine, the shifting rune will be destroyed and it will revert to its original size.
It is no more of an economc problem than a fake gold coin.
Like so much else its not all explicit in the rules. But there are simple reasonable interpretations here. I don't see why any sane GM would cause themselves any extra problems.