I run into this topic a lot lately from other versions of D&D particularly 5e and 3.5e most frequently.
I would like to find a definitive answer if possible or at a minimum a work around that keeps the rules of the Bestiary in mind. The main sources I use are linked below:
https://aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Succubus
https://roll20.net/compendium/pathfinder/Succubus#content
So the main concern is the SR and the DR appear to be flat out static in Pathfinder 1e this is further confirmed here,
https://aonprd.com/UMR.aspx?ItemName=All
Most other creatures have variable SR and DR based on HD or class levels. The work around I am working on would take into consideration the CR or the HD of the creature subtract that from the static number then apply the new advanced CR or HD to the base. As for class levels that is an easy add since class levels always give and HD or the level itself counts toward the HD or CR respectively then advancement becomes an easy task.
So let me give you an example of a Succubus SR for starters, and then see what you all think about the final.
The bestiary Succubus has a CR of 7 and 8 HD the static SR is 18 since the succubus has no advancement options class levels appear to be the only way to make it a viable creature in later adventure games.
So is we subtract the CR from the SR that leaves 11 base say we add 5 class levels of Bard then we reapply by adding the CR with the levels thus making her a SR 23.
Conversely if we do HD then we end up with an SR of 23 anyway ((18-8)=10) then (((8+5)+10)=23), so no matter which way you go the SR changes the same amount but CL is effected differently.
CR example of CL (((10+7)+5)=22 CL) vs HD (((10+8)+5)=23 CL).
To be honest I feel either formula is correct but which is better or is this just strictly a house ruling thing at this point?
I feel I should apologize so please excuse my lack of communication skills when putting my thoughts into words.
SR seems to be based on CR. Most other demons in Bestiary 1 get an SR of CR + 11, the only oddball is shadow demon with CR + 10. And the weakest demons (dretch, quasit) don't get any.
Personally I'd go one step back and ask myself: What do I want to achieve with that monster? Then there are usually multiple options to pick from. If you want a succubus for a much higher level, here are some approaches:
1) Add class levels. It's a classic, but means a lot of work and the balance can be wonky.
2) Use table 1-1 of Bestiary. If you want CR 13, add 95 HP (180 for CR 13 minus the 85 for CR 7), 8 AC (28 - 20), 6 AB (low attack row, she is an enchanter after all), 30 damage (maybe add a single spell that does ~60 damage in average, like empowered fireball), +4 DC for her enchantment stuff and 6 on all saves. Sprinkle in a few new mid-level abilities, maybe crank up DR a bit, done.
3) Simply pick another demon. Lilitu seems to be a good replacement for high level, for example.
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The bestiary Succubus has a CR of 7 and 8 HD the static SR is 18 since the succubus has no advancement options class levels appear to be the only way to make it a viable creature in later adventure games.
Pathfinder has existing Monster Advancement rules
Using that system you can simply add HD and increase other abilities as appropriate. Most monsters use 11+CR to determine SR.
The DR shouldn't change normally. Succubi already have values as high as any demons short of Balor. Maybe if you were advancing one to the level of a nascent demon lord their DR should increase, but at that point you are creating a creature with unique powers.
You can also add Templates to monsters to keep them viable at higher CRs.
As a GM, I like insinuating powerful monsters or NPCs into the the party without their knowledge, perhaps revealing later the damsel in distress they rescued a few adventures back and who helps them from time to time is really a Succubus who used them to gain a position of power, or one of the character's horses is really a Polymorphed Gold Dragon who wanted to keep an eye on the party or something like that.
In concept the reason I wanna use the succubus is close to your thoughts here. In short she was exiled, Queen is afraid of her being misused to overthrow her in the campaign due to her dragon half making her a bit more powerful.
SheepishEidolon and CBDunkerson both your ideas have merit and I will look into them further. I feel though that doesn't answer my question maybe I need to word it better in the future when I have other questions. I feel CB has the better answer though in regards to my question. This makes me feel that by adding class levels to a base succubus then increasing SR accordingly as follows.
11+CR+Class Levels = SR (Learning a class to hide her true nature and manipulate the party)
I agree leaving the DR alone sounds best as pointed out by Sheepish, and no I have no intention of advancing her to Demon Lord. Since one exist now that would be a rather lengthy campaign of which I am not prepared to run right now if I did. As for manipulation of the party that is a given as this succubus seeks vengeance for her exile. Plus she still has to "lead the group" to the midnight isles if she wishes to return from exile this poses plenty of other issues for the party in question.
There is a succubus antipaladin 12 in one of the Pathfinder modules.
She's listed CR 19 and 20 HD (listed as flat 20d10+192, but shouldn't it be 8d8+12d10 instead of 20d10?).
Her spell resistance is 30.
So she follows the formula of SR=CR+11.
In the same adventure, there's a succubus vampire sorcerer 11.
She's listed CR 17 and 19 HD (listed as 8d8+11d6+239).
Her spell resistance is 28.
So she follows the formula of SR=CR+11.
If you want to know which module they're in, see within the spoiler tag.
Don't forget that adding class levels causes the CR to increase so you just use the succubus's new CR+11 to get its spell resistance rather than adding the class levels to the SR calculation too.
Damage Reduction generally doesn't scale up with increased level, unless it's a class feature. You might look at some templates though, as some add DR or change it.
Both outsider HD and Antipaladin levels are a d10,FYI.
Both outsider HD and Antipaladin levels are a d10,FYI.
Ah, yeah. I wasn't thinking about the vampire template on the second succubus changing the hitdice to d8s from d10s. I blame the late hour of my post. ;-)