Rangers and Warden Spells

[PMSchulz]

So, am I understanding correctly that rangers can cast warden spells as of first level, but need to take a feat (Heal Companion or Gravity Weapon) to actually gain any spells? Or is there a future planning for rangers to have spells without needing to take focus spells.

[Castilliano]

Rangers cannot cast spells until they take one of the feats. I don't know of any PF2 mechanic that differentiates between a non-caster (which a Ranger starts as) and a spellcaster w/o spells (which PF2 Rangers aren't though they kinda were in PF1) so the difference remains moot for now.

Paizo has not revealed plans, though it'd take a major overhaul to launch a Ranger w/ spells & a spell list. Such a beast would likely be to the detriment of the Ranger's martial abilities therefore it's unlikely to be created.
It's pretty easy to pick up an MCD Caster feat chain and get similar spellcasting to PF1 and in any flavor available. Another knock against seeing a future Ranger casting on its own.

Focus spells are better anyway for dabblers since Refocusing gives so many castings.

[N N 959]

Castilliano wrote:

Focus spells are better anyway for dabblers since Refocusing gives so many castings.

If we ignore the extremely limited scope of focus spells, I would agree. The ability to regain Focus points makes focus spells a much better mechanic for the Rangers. The tremendous downside is that you cannot acquire any new spells without giving up feats. So if new focus spells come out later, you'd have to sacrifice something in your build to get them. This part is really painful and extremely limiting.

@PMSchulz - Rangers only get the spells for which they take a Feat to acquire. Rangers don't have a "spell list." And yes, you have to take one of the 1st level feats to get any other spells.

Quote:

It's pretty easy to pick up an MCD Caster feat chain and get similar spellcasting to PF1 and in any flavor available. Another knock against seeing a future Ranger casting on its own.

While agree what the MCD situation undercuts Paizo's design space to add a casting Ranger, I believe the real reason you won't see it is that Paizo doesn't want unique spell lists. The Primal spells aren't all appropriate for a Ranger, so Paizo would need to create specific list for Rangers a la PF1. This is something Paizo seems to be explicitly against doing (though I expect they'll bend that rule eventually).

[PossibleCabbage]

Because PF2 seems to want to hold the line at "there are only 4 spell lists" (for the four magical traditions) it's unlikely we will get slot-based casting for dabblers in any way except for via archetypes.

The paradigm for PF2 is that classes get relatively little from their class chassis besides a proficiency package, and that most of the oomph comes from feats. The upside to this being that a GM can tweak the number of feats available to characters to give the game the feel they want.

[pauljathome]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

The paradigm for PF2 is that classes get relatively little from their class chassis besides a proficiency package,

I'd rather strongly disagree with that.

A characters class (and subclass) is by far the most important thing in defining how a character interacts with the game world.

I've got a cleric who has literally (at level 8) taken NO cleric feats but he is still very, very obviously a cleric.

[N N 959]

How do you take no class feats at any level?

[PossibleCabbage]

N N 959 wrote:

How do you take no class feats at any level?

For casters, you can take a dedication at 2nd and just take archetype feats at 4, 6, etc. For martials, it's not possible since there's currently no way to trade out that 1st level class fea.

Casters are generally more defined by their class chassis since you have "an entire spell list, and slots and repetoire/preparation choices." Whereas a monk (for example) basically just gets a proficiency package and weapon spec (things all classes get), flurry, "your unarmed strikes are legitimate weapons", speed, and a flavorful fortune ability at 19th.

[Anne Archer]

I am going to necro this thread to ask a question... the Warden spell Heal Companion is a 1st level feat but it requires you to already have an Animal Companion which is also a 1st level feat.

Since I know of no way to get two Ranger 1st level feats (please correct me if I am wrong), that means you take Animal Companion at 1st level and Heal Companion at 2nd. Why is Healing Companion a 1st level feat/focus spell if you can never take it at 1st level?

Also note that a Ranger normally takes the Hunted Shot or Twin Takedown feat at 1st/2nd level. This pushes Heal Companion back to 4th level...

[HammerJack]

Humans with Natural Ambition can easily take both at level 1.