Help and thoughts with Ranged battlefield control build

[Jarzack]

Hi everyone, this is my first post in this page so forgive me if i do something wrong.

Anyway so my friends and I have a hombrew campaign incomming and it's the third on a long story built by our GM, in the other two i played as a cleric healer, and a beastmorph alchemist, so i decided to play a full martial character to end the circle (full caster, half caster, no caster, you know).
So when comming up with this character these are the main traits that i cannot change; first, it must be full martial, no spellcasting allowed, second this must be a support like build cause there's enough damage on the team, and third it must be ranged. I know, if you're still reading you must be like, this guy is nuts, but hear me out, it can be done.

Okay the build I've come up with revolves around overwatch style, setting up readied actions to help my allies or interfere with my enemies, trick shots, comming from the called shots additional rules and the weapon trick rules, also with a pinch of juicy feats that allow you to make cool thing with your arrows, bolts or bullets, and special ammo. (i'll leave a link for the special rules at the end of the post)

With all this set and done, here's the build:
Stats are rolled so I can't bring them up, but i'm going to focus on dex and int (int for the craft skill cause I thought it could be cool to make my own special ammo), thinking about race I was prone to Sylph cause I like them, but elves are cool to with their trait that gives you +1 to readied attacks.

First 2 levels are zen archer to get the basic archery feats ASAP, as well as perfect strike (I like perfect strike)

Lvl 1: monk feats (perfect strike, improved unarmed strike, precise shot), regular feat (point-blank shot)
Lvl 2: monk feats (weapon focus longbow, rapid shot)

So at second level I already have all the feats I require to take overwatch style, which I think is pretty nice, so from here on imma take full fighter levels, cause I need the feats, I won't take any archetypes cause I don't see one that fully resonates with the build, but if you find one that do, please be my guest (I do like crossbowman but since I took zen archer I cannot change to crossbow).

Lvl 3: regular feat (overwatch style), fighter feat (overwatch tactitian)
Lvl 4: fighter feat (far shot)
lvl 5: regular feat (master crafstman)

Okay, so far we have overwatch style which allows me to ready 2 attacks as a full round with a -2 on each of them, and overwatch tactitian that reduces that to a standar action, which allows me to move for better map control, here I'd use special arrows like tanglefoot arrows, trip arrows, smoke arrows and such to help my buddys. Far shot, apart from being a nice touch to ranged combat, is a prerequisite for combat tricks, and master crafstman is for building my own cool amo, and dipping into magical ammo too.

Lvl 6: fighter feat (weapon trick)
Lvl 7: regular feat (snap shot)
Lvl 8: fighter feat (disrupting shot)
Lvl 9: regular feat (deadly aim)
Lvl 10: fighter feat (burrowing shot)

Well, in this part is when the build gets juicier, first of all we finally have both ranged weapon tricks with their prerequired feat (far shot and snap shot) this allows us to ready an action against an enemy to give them a -4 for a single saving throw, and to ready an action to prevent an enemy from taking AoO, pretty nice huh? also disrupting shot increases the concentration check in +4 when we ready an action to hit a caster while casting, and finally burrowing shot which is amazing, allows us to use a swift action when we hit an enemy to give them an untyped -2 to basically avery d20 roll.

So up to lvl 10 we can in our turn, move, see what our party needs, and ready 2 attacks, which not only can give inmunity to AoO to our allies, or doom the enemys casters, but with special ammo we can silence an enemy, entangle them, trip them, set some smoke to reduce vision, and basically whatever cool ammo I can come up with or find, that my Gm allows. Not comparable in terms of sheer power to a battleground controll specialized wizard, but in my humble opinion, a pretty nice match. And also don't forget that I'm basically a full BAB fighter so if my party needs dmg, I can help them fully attacking.

Now for the last 2 lvls that I have set and thought.

Lvl 11: regular feat (liberating shot)
Lvl 12: fighter feat (overwatch vortex)

Okay, so liberating shot gives us even more utility, if we shot an enemy grapling an ally and hit them our ally can use our attack roll for their try to break the grapple, and finally overwatch vortex allows us to, as a full round action, ready 4 different attacks with a -2 each, for even more options and posibilities in combat.

My main concerns are with the next levels, but if you want to help or advise me in this first 12 levels, please do.
So my problem is with the called shots, called shots are an amazing rule, you can aim at different parts of the enemys body and if you hit them you give some nasty penalties, cool right? well first of all, to perform a called shot is a full-round, so a big no no for our radied actions, it becomes viable with the first called shot feat "improved called shots", which allows to perform one called shot in a full round or a standar action that gives multiple attacks, yay, but a prerequisite for this feat is combat expertise, which gives nothing to my build, but every cool thing has it's s%%#ty price right? this is a problem cause it slows the feat progresion in the build, so any recomendation on how to get a free combat expertise feat would be great. The next problem with called shots comes with the second feat of the chain "greater called shots", this allows us to make as many called shots as we want in multipple attacks, each with a bigger penalty, and reduces the threshold for the debilitating blow rule in called shots, and what is that? well called shots give penalties if you hit, but if you score a critical hit, or if you make half of the enemys HP with the attack, the penalties become even greater, I love this rule, but as you'll understand, this is not a damage build, so my damage per shot, is not that high, and with a bow my probability for critting is so low that cannot be accounted for the build. So any recomendations on how to increase the damage per shot? do you think that dipping into called shots is a waste?

Finally there's a cool feat line that gives you an animal companion with your druid level as your character level -3 (natural soul, into, animal ally) and with boon companion I could get a full animal companion, I think this would be a cool addition to the build cause the animal companion could be in the thick of the fight making all the combat maneuvers that I cannot do from range, helping again with the whole "support" role of this build, but i'm not so sure, give me your thoughts on this if you can, thanks.

-So the link for weapon tricks is: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/weapon-trick-combat/
-For called shots rules: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/called-shots/
-Annd any strange feat I mention on the build: animal ally (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/animal-ally/)

If any one has read up until here, first of all thanks a lot for your time, and I'll be waiting on any of your recommendations and suggestions.

[VoodistMonk]

That's a lot to digest, but seems pretty straightforward once you get it all down.

For archery, I especially like Half-Orcs. Yeah, yeah, yeah... Orc HornBows seem OP, but if you aren't focused on damage it will be perfectly fine. Anyways, they get Darkvision, and Shaman's Apprentice, and Sacred Tattooes, and then take Fate's Favored.

What I don't like about this build is that it has consumed every feat up to level 12, save one. What does this character do when not readying actions to shoot $#!+ with a bow?

[Scott Wilhelm]

I was just playing around with a ranged battlefield control build that does not cast spells.

Goblin
1Fighter1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot

For a Ranged Character, I consider it essential to get Precise Shot as early as possible. I see you get it at level 1 as well.

2F1Alchemist1: Grenadier Archetype, Bombs 1d6, Brew Potion, Mutagens, Extracts

Alchemists don't cast spells.

3F1A1Gunslinger1: Goblin Gunslinger

Goblin Gunslinger lets you use a size medium gun and not just a small gun.

4F1A2G1: Alchemal Weapon, Infusion

This lets you charge your bullets with Alchemal weapons such as Alchemist Fire for a little extra oomf. Exploding Bullets are cool. Infusion lets you give your Extracts to your Allies, letting you buff them while you make your Ranged Touch Attacks.

5F1A3G1: Bombs 2d6, Burn! Burn! Burn!

An extra 1d4 Damage

6F1A4G1: Explosive Missile

This lets you put your Bombs into your Bullets an shoot them as a Standard Action. And recall that you are loading your bullets with Alchemist Fire or Lamp Oil as a Move Action.

Jarzack wrote:

these are the main traits that i cannot change; first, it must be full martial, no spellcasting allowed

This build has that: Alchemal Extracts are not Spells

Jarzack wrote:

second this must be a support like build

Totally a support build. You can buff party members with extracts.

And you will be a skill monkey: Alchemists, like Monks, have a decent number of skill points.

Jarzack wrote:

i decided to play a full martial character to end the circle (full caster, half caster, no caster, you know).

Your circle will not be complete until you have also played a Skill Monkey.

Jarzack wrote:

third it must be ranged.

Exploding Bullets!

[Meirril]

Opinion on the build: Cool concept, but it doesn't carry out the goal.

Being able to help 2 players per round isn't what I'd call 'Battlefield control'. Depending on what special ammo you have you might be able to accomplish that, but it forces you to be proactive instead of reactive.

Which is my second problem with the build. If your main combat tactic is to set up 2 readied actions it means you are reactive to bad things, and you need either the monsters or your fellow players to do what you want to happen or you're actions are wasted. Being reactive means waiting until something happens and then reacting to it. Being proactive means bringing the hurt before the monster gets to decide what to do.

The concept sounds cool, but I think it won't work unless you're group (and GM) are very accommodating of this character. If they like the schtick, they will listen and do what triggers your actions. If they don't pay attention or circumstances change you waste a round.

And compared to a standard archery build which is better: Causing the BBG to take 1 debilitating effect and possibly waste an action, or killing him? A well build archery build can very often 1 round a boss.

I'll offer at least 2 alternative ideas in the next post.

[Meirril]

Ok, so the goal is to make a non-caster support build. In my mind, Alchemists are full caters. Sure extracts aren't spells, but they are also spells. Argue semantics all you want.

The first thing that comes to mind is Dazzling Display and the line of feats based on it. Being able to give lots of opponents the Shaken condition isn't bad for a control effect. It is even better if you can give them the Frightened condition... which is possible if you take the Signature Skill: Intimidate feat. Depending on the nature of the campaign this could be very effective, or a dud.

I think Barbarian is a good fit for an intimidation build. Though you might want to consider a ranger as well.

Rangers have spells? Well normally yes, but you can pick an archetype that gets rid of that. If you choose to be a trapper archetype, you get Trapfinding and you get to make Ranger Traps. Eventually you can attach a ranger trap to an arrow and launch it. Give up the Animal Companion and you'll be able to share your Favored Enemy bonus as another support skill. And you'll be an out of combat support type too with outdoor skills.

You also might look into the Cavalier Grappler build. Being able to disable an opponent each around (but not kill them) is like crowd control...

[Jarzack]

VoodistMonk wrote:

That's a lot to digest, but seems pretty straightforward once you get it all down.

For archery, I especially like Half-Orcs. Yeah, yeah, yeah... Orc HornBows seem OP, but if you aren't focused on damage it will be perfectly fine. Anyways, they get Darkvision, and Shaman's Apprentice, and Sacred Tattooes, and then take Fate's Favored.

I'll definitely write this down, cause half-orcs are one of my favourite races.

VoodistMonk wrote:

What I don't like about this build is that it has consumed every feat up to level 12, save one. What does this character do when not readying actions to shoot $#!+ with a bow?

If you're asking in combat, as I said i can still full attack with rapid shot and still get a decent amount of damage. As per out side of combat things, i'd be building arrows and such, and even though the fighter's amount of skill ranks is really low, with my high int I'm planning on getting a few skills up like stealth, and posibly some knowledges.

[Jarzack]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I was just playing around with a ranged battlefield control build that does not cast spells.

I like the build, but, at least from my point of view, alchemist do cast spells, a special form of spells, but spells nevertheless, and also my last character was an alchemist too and I don't like to repeat classes, cause I only have a limited amount of games, and I have like a ton of characters and clases that i'd like to try, but I'll write this down and try to find some alchemist archetype without extracts, cause the bomb launcher rifle sounds too cool to let it pass by ahahhaha.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Your circle will not be complete until you have also played a Skill Monkey.

I know! I've been trying to make this build also some kind of skill monkey (I have a similar build but instead of fighter, is with an skirmisher ranger, it's basically the same but instead of relying on feats and special arrows, i rely on the skirmisher special shots), also i've been trying to think a way to fit some levels of rogue or slayer into de build but couldn't find my way around it.

[VoodistMonk]

Toxophilite Ranger gets to ready shots to shoot incoming missiles out of the air... which is awesome. Combine it with the archetype that gives up spells, and you at least get two good saves and more skill points out of the deal. Three levels of ZAM thrown in the mix gets a bunch of cool feats and Flurry of Bows... it also hinges off of Wisdom, as due the Ranger's tricks that replace spells (if I remember correctly).

[rorek55]

you could go with a crossbowman build for control vs casters. If you are fighting casters, just say "readied action to shoot when they cast" If you hit, the caster has to make a concentration check or lose the spell. Take the overwatch style feats and get several shots per round.