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I had this big argument with my GM in FIRST EDITION. He was insisting that my summoned creatures wouldn't attack my enemies in a fog because they wouldn't know that the creature they encountered in the fog was my enemy (since I couldn't see them even if my summoned creature could).
Looking over SECOND EDITION I don't see that they clarified this in any way. It still basically just says the summoned creature attacks your enemies.
Do summoned creatures just somehow know who your enemies are?
Does the caster somehow impart to the summoned creatures who the caster's enemies are, even if they have no way to communicate? So, if your summoned creature appears at a wall corner next to an enemy orc that the caster can't see (because the orc is around the corner), the summoned creature will ignore the enemy orc?
Something else?
Or do we just go RAW - its a summoned creature, it attacks the caster's enemies, that creature is an enemy of the caster, attack! and try not to rationalize it.
Just fishing for thoughts, both as to the "RULE" and otherwise.
Well, you could do it a variety of ways according to what the DM allows.
A DM wanting to keep it easy let's you choose your enemies by pointing or some kind of command.
A DM wanting to make things a little more interesting could allow you to order the summoned creatures to attack what they find in the fog. That might end up being your enemies or perhaps your allies in the fog.
The summon spells say "You summon a creature to fight for you." Doesn't seem to matter if they're you're enemies or not.
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I've always ran them as follows: as the caster they have the same disposition toward any creatures as you do. So if you were Hostile toward someone they would as well. If you are Friendly or Helpful toward someone, so are they.
You wouldn't be able to summon a creature to attack an enemy you wouldn't even know is there, even if they can see them and you can't. Like, if there were invisible assassins creeping up to you and you suddenly summoned a creature with See Invis out of nowhere, but you couldn't communicate with them, they would just kinda wait around until the assassins tried something obviously hostile toward you.
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Well, you could do it a variety of ways according to what the DM allows.
A DM wanting to keep it easy let's you choose your enemies by pointing or some kind of command.
A DM wanting to make things a little more interesting could allow you to order the summoned creatures to attack what they find in the fog. That might end up being your enemies or perhaps your allies in the fog.
The summon spells say "You summon a creature to fight for you." Doesn't seem to matter if they're you're enemies or not.
The spell doesn't say it per se, but the spell brings a creature with the Summoned Trait, which in part says:
"It generally attacks your enemies to the best of its abilities. If you can communicate with it, you can attempt to command it, but the GM determines the degree to which it follows your commands. Immediately when you finish Casting the Spell, the summoned creature uses its 2 actions for that turn."
The follow on sentence implies you don't have to command it to attack certain foes you identify as your enemies, and in fact would make the spell useless if you couldn't communicate with your Summoned Creature (as will usually be the case) if you interpret the spell as requiring you to direct your Summoned Crature.
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I've always ran them as follows: as the caster they have the same disposition toward any creatures as you do. So if you were Hostile toward someone they would as well. If you are Friendly or Helpful toward someone, so are they.
You wouldn't be able to summon a creature to attack an enemy you wouldn't even know is there, even if they can see them and you can't. Like, if there were invisible assassins creeping up to you and you suddenly summoned a creature with See Invis out of nowhere, but you couldn't communicate with them, they would just kinda wait around until the assassins tried something obviously hostile toward you.
So you go with the subjective idea that the caster somehow imparts the information on the summoned creature?
In the case of the invisible assassins, they'll soon be your enemy, but currently aren't, even though you're their enemy.
Hopefully the summoned creature can speak to you though.
"Um, there are these guys moving into flanking positions. Did you want me to do something about them?"
And it's not often you'll summon without an enemy present due to the short duration except maybe to gain access to a spell where you'd be able to speak to a creature or to set off a trap which would likely be a low-level critter without See Invisibility.
It gets messy though if the invisible assassins have obvious allies that you're fighting (and the creature can't ask). How much free will does the creature have to attack in a way that best serves you?
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Because magic?
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The current paradigm is that summoned creatures aren't actually 'summoned' from somewhere and then returned there afterwards (possibly beaten up, poisoned, dead...), but actually created for a short time and uncreated after the spell ends. So it would follow that logic that a 'summoned' creature has the same basic information on friend or foe that the caster has at the time of casting, since he's creating it from whole cloth at the moment of casting.
IMO, it wouldn't psychically intuit that someone is an enemy before the caster realizes it (so summoning a dog into a room full of potential enemies to find out who the bad-guy is by seeing who it runs and attacks is NOT an option), but, if intelligent enough, might realize that an invisible foe creeping up for a backstab, dagger in hand, that the caster can't perceive, is a threat, and not a special friend moving in to apply lotion for a back massage...
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Because magic?
Next question!
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Because magic?
I came here to give exactly this answer
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The current paradigm is that summoned creatures aren't actually 'summoned' from somewhere and then returned there afterwards (possibly beaten up, poisoned, dead...), but actually created for a short time and uncreated after the spell ends.Is this confimed for second edition?
I have problems with it, because they use the same language for summoning unique named outsiders, and Pact rituals exist.
That is a conundrum.
I believe James Jacobs was the one who informed us of the change so as to avoid all those prickly situations of summoning creatures w/ souls who come and typically suffer. It was in the forums many months ago.In the same vein, he said outsiders die and aren't simply sent back home.
Yet, getting hold of a creature's name for summons is an established trope, though that might be different type of magic, like calling vs. summoning in PF1.
As for a summoned creature gaining info from the summoner, I have to disagree because they can know languages you don't know. It's like making a 3D print. I think "it's magic" might be the best solution barring shenanigans, i.e. to detect one's unknown enemy like mentioned above.