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Does the Summoner loose spells at level 5? Are they no longer able to cast level 1 spells at 5?
Yep, and as far as I can tell they the ability to use staves that require those slots too as you need to be "are able to cast spells of the appropriate level". [there is a debate on that]
Correct. Also, not a dumb question, it's confused many many people.
No, the question isn't dumb at all: I think everyone looked at the chart and wondered 'what the heck is going on here?'
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They made spellcasting a little weird for these 4 slot classes.
You can definitely still cast level 1 spells if you want. They are heightened to level 2 or 3.
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You can definitely still cast level 1 spells if you want. They are heightened to level 2 or 3.
They mean you cannot cast from a level 1 spellslot, as you lose your lower slots as you level.
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You can definitely still cast level 1 spells if you want. They are heightened to level 2 or 3.They mean you cannot cast from a level 1 spellslot, as you lose your lower slots as you level.
Maybe, but I thought it was worth it to clarify that if you like Magic Missile you can use it throughout all of your carreer, and it gets stronger on the way.
Nothing is actually lost, you are just forgoing the opportunity to pick up another spell with a higher baseline power.
Maybe, but I thought it was worth it to clarify that if you like Magic Missile you can use it throughout all of your carreer, and it gets stronger on the way.
Nothing is actually lost, you are just forgoing the opportunity to pick up another spell with a higher baseline power.
This. Losing lower level spells is not how it is thematically really intended.
You have 4 spell slots and they grow in power. You didn't lose 1st level slots, they grew in power to 2nd level slots when your 2nds grew to 3rds.
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This. Losing lower level spells is not how it is thematically really intended.
I'm not sure how it's thematically NOT losing slots when other classes growing in power means more slots: add to that that you DO start gaining slots [levels 1-4] but then switch to another method of growth when you reach an arbitrary number of slots... I'm not really getting the thematic link as to me it's forgetting slots whenever you gain higher level ones but only after level 4...
This. Losing lower level spells is not how it is thematically really intended.I'm not sure how it's thematically NOT losing slots when other classes growing in power means more slots: add to that that you DO start gaining slots [levels 1-4] but then switch to another method of growth when you reach an arbitrary number of slots... I'm not really getting the thematic link as to me it's forgetting slots whenever you gain higher level ones but only after level 4...
You have 4 slots, you level, and you still have 4 slots. You didn't lose any slots.
Your slots just all got better.
Choosing to interpret it as losing the lower level slots when you gain the higher ones creates this cognitive dissonance, when there's a perfectly valid alternate take that doesnt.
Don't choose options that create issues when you have an option that doesn't create issues.
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Don't choose options that create issues when you have an option that doesn't create issues.
You 100% factually lose slots: you no longer "able to cast spells of the appropriate level" for staves. You got some brain damage and forgot the basics.
It's like forgetting how to ride a electric bicycle but being able to ride a supercharged motorcycle... The basic slots are like basic building blocks to learn further knowledge. IMO, it's like saying you forget basic algebra to learn calculus: you need those basics.
For me what "creates this cognitive dissonance" is an attempt to say you don't lose slots when you see yourself losing slots... At 2nd level you just gain slots. At level 3 you just gain slots, at 4th you just gain slots but at level 5th you lose as many slots as you gain.
You 100% factually lose slots: you no longer "able to cast spells of the appropriate level" for staves. You got some brain damage and forgot the basics.
This interpretation seems unlikely to be the intent, as it doesnt make narrative or descriptive sense.
If they confirm it as intent, I'll live with... but until then, it doesn't track with any sort of logic other than "they didn't catch the unintended interaction with staves".
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This interpretation seems unlikely to be the intent, as it doesnt make narrative or descriptive sense.
I don't like it because it doesn't make narrative or descriptive sense: it's why I hope it doesn't make it to the end product.
If they confirm it as intent
Until [or IF] they confirm intent, it's all guesses but I don't see how it will not FEEL like losing slots and spell levels and the spell slots associated to them: you used to have low level slots and now you don't... Wizards [or pick any other casters] don't feel like they evolved any of their slots but build on the basics every level and so does the 4 slot caster until 5th then they start forgetting things...
I mean you can see from the thread here, where someone asks if you lose slots and people agreeing: I think no matter what intent is claimed, people will feel like they lost slots.
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I'm with Krispy on this one. You didn't lose slots. Your existing slots got better.
If I chose dispel magic, invisibility, mage armor, and magic missile as my first four non-cantrip spells AND NEVER CHANGED THEM, there would be no question that they got more powerful as I leveled. The fact that they are all signature spells AND could ALL be changed every single level, if anything, makes it better than other casters in some respects. The transitory nature of the spells can be attributed to the transitory nature of the eidolon even, as both are constantly evolving and changing forms.
To be clear, I'm not saying it's a great mechanic, merely that it makes a lot of conceptual sense.
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I imagine having access to the list allows access to spells through items, so that is good. It's very limited casting. If it recharged like a Warlock, that would be fine. It doesn't. 4 slots for the day seems really tight.
Yes, it is incredibly tight.
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I'm with Krispy on this one. You didn't lose slots. Your existing slots got better.
If I chose dispel magic, invisibility, mage armor, and magic missile as my first four non-cantrip spells AND NEVER CHANGED THEM, there would be no question that they got more powerful as I leveled.
Sure the spells got stronger but that was never in question: we where talking about slots. You forget lower level slots when you gain other. Do you say your sorcerer improves a lower level slot when they gain a level and gains a lower level one to replace it when thy do? Or do you just say you just gained a new slot? They are gaining spells the same thematic way a sorcerer does so I'm not seeing a thematic that makes losing slots NOT losing slots.
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Yep but there are some spells that LOSES some abilities when they are heightened. Invisibility for example.
Which makes the way Summoner loses spells very ennoying to say the least...
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You literally lose your lower-level slots as you level, that's how the 2/2 scaling spellslot system for Magus and Summoner work, how is this even debatable?
I understand your spells increase in power, because you get access to higher level slots.
But you cannot cast spells from a 1st level slot once the slot is gone.
I'm not saying whether Magus and Summoner can use staves or not, that's a whole discussion in the General portion of the playtest forum, or even that i like or hate this new type of spellcasting but that is how their spellcasting works.