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The stewards aren't going to take their ships from their station to chase a rumor of an ancient superweapons that might still be in working order.
I get that some characters might not get hooked, and some APs just don't jive with some groups, but... I'm just not understanding your specific complaints.
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"it ranges from policing neutral space lanes and facilitating trade negotiations to ending nascent wars with overwhelming force"
Keep reading, keep reading:
"Violence is always a last resort for the Stewards, however, as to achieve peace through conquest would undermine the very principles they stand for. This refusal to step outside their mandate is both the Stewards’ pride and their weakness, as criminals can easily escape their jurisdiction by jumping out of the solar system or crossing into the territory of a planetary government, forcing the Stewards to work with independent bounty hunters and groups like the Knights of Golarion and the Skyfire Legion.
Now your space police is subcontracting religious zealots or mercenaries. Sounds like things are getting out of hand - though either of them wouldn't mind putting their hands on the ancient alien macguffin.
4 individuals who got intel on a cult trying to take over a weapon powerful enough to destroy solar systems who don't think the Stewards would want to help deal with it (and would clearly be more equipped and better trained to deal with the situation than 4 chuckleheads with an old ship they found)
At the end of book three your "chuckleheads" would be at level 7 - that's nothing to sneeze at. They are probably in a very tiny percentage of superpowered individuals across the entire galaxy.
My players were clear that they were hired to investigate. The scale of the threat was over their heads for a few credits. It's a reasonable response to going from "Hey can you rescue our professor?" to "They have a weapon that can destroy the galaxy." It goes from 3 to 11 real fast. Overall Dead Suns really soured our image of the entire system. We just wanted it to be over. (Informing the Stewards was our out)
I can see the problem.
From the AP:
The player characters should have some sort of connection with the Starfinder Society, either as new members or as prospective applicants (at the very least, the PCs should have a good reason to ally themselves with the Society), and have come to Absalom Station to find work.
About the society:
The quest for knowledge and the desire to explore and unravel the mysteries of the universe are hallmarks of any great operation. For members of the Starfinder Society, this curiosity is more than just a drive—it’s a lifestyle.
If the PCs were built to work for credits, it's no wonder they didn't have the right motivation.
It's like playing Attack of the Swarm! with a party of criminals. It can be done, but it probably will be miserable.
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I think the biggest problem for Starfinder is that people build their idea of it by using our society and technology and extrapolate it into the future (and use current time morals). But this is not how Starfinder is build.
Take a look at the awesome artwork, no micro-computer, people are running around in armor and with weapons, barely any police.
It's a fantasy world with lasers and spaceships, not The Expanse scifi world.
I think the best comparison would be Star Wars or 80s Cartoons (e.g. Marshal Bravestar or Galaxy Rangers (a good example of how the Stewards work)).
Once you understand this and lean into it, the world begins to shine.
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Party "Help! there's a galaxy ending superweapon pointed at our heads. We need to send the army now!"
Steward reception desk "Please fill out form Omega seven and hop into line over there. Behind the definitely not a Vesk operative in a mustache, and definitely not a corpse fleet guy in sunglasses, and the guy with the sign that says "the end is near"..Oh hey tony. New Trenchcoat? "
Admittedly, I found starfinder because I was trying to find "scifi dnd" and I recognized all the terminology in starfinder so I dove in. It's... not very friendly to inexperienced GM's and Dead Suns is probably the worst AP to start a group with.
If you don't think "heroes" fit in a sci-fi setting, there are plenty of down to earth options available. I hear the new Cyberpunk Red is pretty good.
GURPS is a staple for realism, though it can also encompass larger than life stories. But if the rules of Starfinder are too much, you better stay away from this one.
Dead Suns does its jobs, introducing planets and rules to newbies - it obviously pushes you towards a plotline, but that's expected from any adventure path that isn't a sandbox.
And since you are leaving Starfinder: bye, and good luck with PF2.
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*That's* what I want to see in AP, or at least AP which have a galactic threat. Have calling in help be part of the plot. Have all those Steward/Starfinder Society/Hellknight ships turn up and fight the corpse/cult/dominion/azlanti fleet, while the PCs in their small ship have to fly through the space battle as cover to try and board the enemy flagship (Guardians of the Galaxy), or attack it through a vulnerable point only a small ship can reach (Star Wars), or land on the planet to do the plot thing there (Star Wars again, also Serenity - in their setting the space police are also the enemy).
That's exactly what I did in AotS:
When the players get back to the Suskillon system, a large multi-faction fleet, consist of Veskarium, Hellknights, Knights of Golarion, Pakt World Military etc. awaits them. The whole fleet moved to the planet with the players ship between them. Every faction then attacked and secured a different part of the planet, the players got command of the main cities landing troups.
Then during the final battle, the BBEG dug out from under the temple toward the open sky and the second half of the final boss battle was done, while the players allys tried to hold of the swarm armies approaching on the temple.
What I want to say is: It's your game, change it like you want. The APs are no strict route, they are more a basic story framework which you can fill with your parties stories and your own ideas. :)
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Sadly you are quite right with your assessment of Dead Suns and Starfinder APs in general.
The plot is basically 4 hillbillies hunting Bin Laden in their pick up truck. Makes an okay comedy b-movie, but you can't take it serious.
The idea that a group of heroes need to save the world works in fantasy because of the limitation of such a setting. Lack of instant communication, lack of organized military and police, lack of general education which makes it a bit more believable that the PCs are indeed exceptional and reliance on very rare, sometimes even unique magical items. And even then Paizo APs are often stretching believability (although mostly because of the frequency a small group of persons have to save to world)
In Starfinder though all those limitations do not exist, yet the adventure insists that still the PCs must follow up on anything that happens, that they are somehow exceptional and that no one else has the ability, (mass manufactured) equipment or interest in preventing the apocalypse.
The usual response you will get here is
1. Don't think about it
2. All those things do not exist in Starfinder!!11! When you point out a modern/scifi setting would not work without them you are pointed to 1.Its really sad that all Paizo seems to be able to do is to copy-paste fantasy plots.
I really think SF isn't your game and you may need to look elsewhere. Shadowrun / Rifts maybe a good fit for you.
In Starfinder though all those limitations do not exist, yet the adventure insists that still the PCs must follow up on anything that happens, that they are somehow exceptional and that no one else has the ability, (mass manufactured) equipment or interest in preventing the apocalypse.
Science fiction and fantasy can both put that element back in simply by dealing with distance. There's nowhere on earth you can't be in 24 hours if you really, really need to to save the world. As opposed to Mid level golarion where you could be weeks of sea travel away from the monster about to devour the moon.
Which is the entire point of science fiction, fantasy, and post apocolyptic genre. Our monkeyspheres aren't big enough to focus on the story of an army. We need it broken down to individuals. Our current world doesn't have a whole lot of opportunity for a few people to make a big difference, so we imagine a world where a small band of people could make such a difference.
Superheroes do the same thing by shrinking the number of people who can possibly do the job from an army to an individual.
All dead suns needed to get around that part was a minor tweak so that you were closer/faster to the thing where you found out about it than absolom station
(book 6 was "why..just...why?" levels of problematic)
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To all the folks that have complained that they just can't report various crimes, plots and the like to the authorities to deal with, I ask you this.
Did you or your players do this in PF1 or did they take the role of heroes?
In Rise of the Runelords did they report back to Sandpoint's sheriff and then call it a day or did they act like heroes?
In Curse of the Crimson Throne when they start uncovering oddities and plots did they report them to the Temple of Abadar and head off to a nearby tavern or did they act like heroes?
In Second Darkness when asked to take the form of Drow and go into the Darklands under cover, did they thanks but no thanks your on your own or did they act like heroes?
And so on and so on and so on.
I don't ever recall seeing post complaining that their players could not report sinister doings and not be able to walk away.
The whole point of adventures if the players to be the stars of the show, not to say well the authorities should handle this.
You know who goes and asks the authorities to solve problems?
NPCs
If you want others to do the heavy lifting for you I would suggest you play "Computers and Cubicles". No risk, no reward, no fame, no satisfaction.
I GM and players play to get away from C&C not to embrace it in our free time.
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When you suggest Rifts as a more sensible alternative to Starfinder you know that something is seriously wrong.I really think SF isn't your game and you may need to look elsewhere. Shadowrun / Rifts maybe a good fit for you.
I enjoy both system and many others. You need to find something that suits you.
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I just want Paizo to accept that the system has some serious weaknesses and be willing to lean in and fix them.
The trouble for you is that a lot of people like it as is. “Fixing” some of the issues you have would make it worse as far as I’m concerned. I think you’re destined for disappointment if you think SF might be changed in the way you like without them producing a SF2.
Even then, I think you’re likely to be disappointed as it looks like you want a Science-Fiction game and SF is explicitly a Science-Fantasy game. I think you’re correct in your characterisation of SF as basically Pathfinder-in-space - that’s certainly why I like playing it. I wouldn’t run a sci-fi game using Starfinder (I would still use Traveller for that). Starfinder isn’t a “futuristic” setting - it’s a thematic mashup of (some) science fiction tropes and a traditional fantasy setting.
I think it’s always going to emphasise the things you don’t find easy to suspend disbelief over - their stories are generally: “plucky band of misfits stumbles across massive problem nobody else knows about and set about trying to fix it”.
Fly Free or Die looks like an exception to that, but I suspect the massively abstracted/simplified trading arrangements are going to bug you in a similar way.
More power to you in terms of advocating for what you want, but bear in mind that for some of us the things you see as flaws are distinguishing features we like about the system.
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Why don't you call the police/where are the authorities is the problem in literally any story with public conflict regardless of setting. Why don't the city guard handle it in a fantasy game is just as legitimate of a question. Most stories make up some sort of conceit to get around the problem. Like how there's never any cell phone reception in a horror movie. Or how the the cops are either incompetent or corrupt in action movies.
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I really like Starfinder, it's kinda cool, I've signal of screams and 2 books of the dead sun AP and I had a lot of fun.
The biggest perk IMO is that in 5e or Pathfinder a fighters and rogues are Hella mundane but soldiers and operatives in Starfinder has crazy technology that's at the same level of the casters classes and as such aren't boring at all.
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I own every AP and every core book. I get the Society scenarios for free, and also buy most of the accessories. I eat this stuff up. There is no other setting out there like it except Spelljammer for AD&D and Esper Genesis for 5e, and sadly Esper Genesis is pretty light on fluff.
My wife and I would be playing this even if it was the most unpopular RPG on Earth and nobody else wanted to play it.
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The biggest perk IMO is that in 5e or Pathfinder a fighters and rogues are Hella mundane but soldiers and operatives in Starfinder has crazy technology that's at the same level of the casters classes and as such aren't boring at all.
I like this reply because one of the main things that PF1 transplants kvetch about is lack of full casters, and it's important to emphasize why not having full casters was a design choice.
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I like this reply because one of the main things that PF1 transplants kvetch about is lack of full casters, and it's important to emphasize why not having full casters was a design choice.
Yep! The 'awesomeness' level is pretty well balanced, sure wish and miracle are still out there but using them is a little more complicated and are once per week if I remember correctly, and even then the soldiers and envoys has crazy powerful technology and weapons! Not to mention the cosmic powers of the Solarian... In one home game I played the GM gives me a Solarian crystal that was literally one of infinity gems from Marvel!
I am loving the system, its versatile and I can be as complicated or loose with it as I want. I like that the classes up till this point (Jan 3rd 2021) nothing feels singularly overpowered and while the game has optimized builds for classes they are not essential to have or do.
It feels like a good swing at the 3 action economy that pathfinder perfected,and ultimately stands on its own.
I love this game :p