Alright, so I'm playing in an evil empire-building campaign, and I'm starting to build some trading ships that will probably be used to haul slaves. So would slaves could as cargo or passengers? My thought is that they're not exactly well-housed (look at the ships used in the Mid-atlantic slave trade) like regular passengers would be, but they're still human(oid) so I'm not exactly certain how that would work.
How do you treat live cargo (animals etc)? My guess is it would work the same way.
If you're referring to a specific rule-set (downtime rules, kindom building rules, etc) it's probably worth linking that.
Stretch on the deck...? You give your slaves recess? If you want them to stay strong and healthy over the course of the journey, make them row! They're slaves.
The trip will be quicker, too, since you have constant manpower propelling the vehicle, as well as wind/sails.
Yard time for slaves. Lol. You're adorable.
Atlantic slave ships had the slaves lying cheek by jowl on what were essentially shelves with maybe 4 feet of headroom. They were really packed in. Lots died, of course. They'd typically get marched out to be exercised and hosed down on deck every day, but otherwise they'd be made to lie there in chains. They were considered as, and treated as, animals. And PETA and the RSPCA did not exist either, so animals were treated pretty awfully too.
Of course this was for humans. If you want your ship to accommodate other species, you might want to allow more or less room. You might also need to prepare for slaves with more power and more aggression than the average African slave, who was by most accounts remarkably fatalistic.
With significant modification you can fit 3 bunks per 5x5 space. Trying to fit more bodies into that tight of a space is possible, but even if you exercise the slaves you'll still have deaths from overheating, poor air circulation, and the miserable conditions. I'm thinking this should be somewhere around 30% of the cost of the base ship.
I was reading a book about the middle passage recently. Actual figures given to the Wilberforce Committee in 1788:
Males - six feet by sixteen inches
Females - five feet by sixteen inches
Boys - five feet by fourteen inches
Girls - four feet six by twelve inches
A death rate of 2% was considered acceptable.
Technically speaking, being made to row would require better conditions than being packed into a tight space like sardines. Rowing requires a wide range of movement (the actual rowing), proper ventilation, and if you want good performance adequate hydration and diet. This is a lot better than the conditions of American slaves being transported to the U.S. Honestly, American slavery was the worst system of slavery ever established.Stretch on the deck...? You give your slaves recess? If you want them to stay strong and healthy over the course of the journey, make them row! They're slaves.
The trip will be quicker, too, since you have constant manpower propelling the vehicle, as well as wind/sails.
Yard time for slaves. Lol. You're adorable.
For sure, it really was. Those dimensions mentioned upthread are hideous.
But, no sir, if you're on my boat, you're workin... no free rides on any of my ships... even for slaves. Rowers will recieve extra rations in the form of table scraps from the crew... on top of their daily ration of black bread.
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Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmnot a fan.
But for rules stuff:
There aren't any rules to build ships, right? Right? I didn't miss that?
... actually there are!
In Pathfinder, boats fall into one of several basic size/body generalities, which are broadly found statistically under vehicles, but clarified, refined and expanded upon in the Skulls and Shackles AP.
(Weirdly, I'm having a hard time finding a neat list on AoN; I'll link here to cover just the sea vessels.)
Note that it is here that Archives of Nethys, much as I love the site, has failed me. While it provides ships stats as printed in Ultimate Equipment (which are useful), it lacks those printed in Skulls & Shackles (which is actually what we need).
Galley: 30,000 gp
> It can carry 150 tons of cargo or 250 soldiers.
Junk: 15,000 gp
> 100 tons/100 passengers
Keelboat: 3,000 gp
> It can carry 50 tons of cargo or 100 soldiers.
Longship: 10,000 gp
> It can carry 50 tons of cargo or 100 soldiers.
Raft: <says its free; p-sure most GMs wouldn't let you make infinite rafts, though>
> It can carry 1,000 pounds/up to 3 passengers (a raft can carry a total of 4 Medium creatures, either as crew or passengers)
Rowboat: 50 gp
> A rowboat can carry 1,000 pounds of cargo or 2 passengers.
> Or it can carry 1,000 pounds/up to 3 passengers
Sailing ship: 10,000 gp
> It can carry 150 tons of cargo or 200 passengers.
Ship's boat: 500 gp
> 2 tons/up to 12 passengers (depending on size, a ship’s boat can carry up to a total of 16 Medium creatures, either as crew or passengers)
Warship: 25,000 gp
> A warship can carry 50 tons of cargo or 160 soldiers.
As unpleasant as it is to discuss, the keelboat in particular is worth noting and comparing to other ships: a keelboat can carry up to 100 soldiers; this is in addition to its crew, mind; and the space it takes up is 50 ft. by 20 ft.
So a 50x20 map would look like:
[.][.][.][.] - four medium
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (eight total)
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (twelve total)
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (sixteen total)
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (twenty total)
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (twenty-four total)
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (twenty-eight total)
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (thirty-two total)
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (thirty-six total)
[.][.][.][.] - four medium (forty total)
So a keelboat should net about forty maximum people by standard spacing, but the way people are crammed into it, it's presumed that it can hold one hundred fifteen (100 soldiers, eight rowers, seven other workers). Also note that, best as I can figure, though it says "x cargo OR x soldiers" that's not how it's used whenever ships appear in game - it seems the cargo capacity and the number are both in addition to each other. (This makes a certain amount of sense when you read some of the adjustments, below.)
Let's also look at one other example: the longship.
A longship is fifteen by seventy-five feet.
[.][.][.] - three
[.][.][.] - three (total six)
[.][.][.] - three (total nine)
[.][.][.] - three (total twelve)
[.][.][.] - three (total fifteen)
[.][.][.] - three (total eighteen)
[.][.][.] - three (total twenty-one)
[.][.][.] - three (total twenty-four)
[.][.][.] - three (total twenty-seven)
[.][.][.] - three (total thirty)
[.][.][.] - three (total thirty-three)
[.][.][.] - three (total thirty-six)
[.][.][.] - three (total thirty-nine)
[.][.][.] - three (total forty-two)
[.][.][.] = three (total forty-five)
Once again, we've got space for forty-five for a typical Pathfinder combat spacing, but we've got (up to) 100 soldiers and forty crew (so 140; plus fifty tons of stuff, presumptively stored under their feet).
Note that these are both rowing vessels, meaning space is incredibly compacted in them, with folks more or less stuck where they are for very long periods. Both of these are also considered sea-going vessels, meaning they're not meant for mere lake, river, or coastal work (though they can function in these as well) but actually are meant for sea voyages. So... long time, small space.
Regardless, the most basic element of ship creation is using the Craft skill, probably Craft (shipbuilder) or something similar. This allows you to craft any given boat for 1/3 the cost to buy it.
(Note: though we have stats for barges and bone skiff I'll be skipping these for now, though if high magic and evil the latter might be something the OP would want to look into.)
Now that that's settled, we also get into the nitty-gritty: ship modifications (or "vessels and vessel customization" as they have it on that site), which we'll be skipping the ones that don't directly impact cargo/crew space:
> Additional Crew Quarters
The ship’s sailors have more space to sleep and eat.
The ship may support 10% more passengers, but its cargo capacity is decreased by 10%.
Requirements: Craft (ships) DC 22; Cost: 20% of base ship cost
> Armor Plating
Benefit: By attaching metal plates to the ship, the hull’s hit points are increased by +15% and its hardness is increased by +4. This modification reduces a ship’s cargo capacity by 15%. The armor plating slows the ship, imposing a –1 penalty on all sailing checks. The ship’s tactical speed in ship-to-ship combat is not affected, but its waterborne speed is reduced by 20%.
Requirements: Craft (ships) DC 28; Cost: 30% of base ship cost
> Increased Cargo Capacity
An efficient remodeling of the ship’s layout means more room for the ship’s stores.
Benefit: The ship’s cargo capacity is increased by 10%.
Requirements: Craft (ships) DC 22; Cost: 15% of base ship cost
> Movable Deck
The features of the ship’s decks are designed to be moved in order to disguise the ship as an altogether different vessel.
Benefit: After pulling up dozens of kingpins, the crew can slide the sterncastle forward on hidden rails, rearrange the position of the masts, extend the gunwales, lower the poop deck, transfer the ship’s wheel, and make other cosmetic changes such as a new figurehead and different-colored sails. The secret pins, levers, and tracks can only be found with a DC 20 Perception check during a close examination of the ship.
Requirements: Craft (ships) DC 28; Cost: 40% of base ship cost
> Narrow Hull
The ship has been intentionally designed with a more slender hull, enabling it to slip through smaller spaces.
Benefit: The ship’s beam (width) is decreased by 20%, and cargo capacity is reduced by 10%. However, the ship gains a +2 bonus on all sailing checks. This improvement must be installed at the time of the ship’s construction and cannot be added later.
Requirements: Craft (ships) DC 22; Cost: 15% of base ship cost
> Smuggling Compartments
The ship’s bulkheads are modified so that gaps between them can serve as hidden cargo storage areas.
Benefit: This does not change a ship’s cargo capacity. A smuggling compartment can hold anything that fits within a 5-foot cubic space. If you are using the plunder rules (see “The Life of a Pirate” in Pathfinder Adventure Path #55 for details on the plunder system), in general, two smuggling compartments are required to hold 1 point of plunder. A DC 20 Perception check is required to locate smuggling compartments in a search of the ship.
Requirements: Craft (ships) DC 19; Cost: 500 gp per 5-foot-square compartment
> Sturdy Hull
The ship’s body has had additional supports and layers of wood added to it, making it thicker and more resilient.
Benefit: The hull’s hardness is increased by 2, but the ship’s cargo capacity is reduced by 10%.
Requirements: Craft (ships) DC 16; Cost: 10% of base ship cost
> Wooden Plating
For protection during naval combat, this ship has received additional wooden planks nailed to its hull.
Benefit: The hull’s hit points are increased by 5% and its hardness is increased by 2. However, this reduces cargo capacity by 10% as extra room must be made inside for beams to support the reinforcements. The ship’s tactical speed in ship-to-ship combat is not affected, but its waterborne speed is reduced by 10%.
Requirements: Craft (ships) DC 25; Cost: 20% of base ship cost
Hopes this helps, I guess?