I really like Eldrich Archer concept but I really don't know how to build it.
First of all I think going for a martial class is the right choice.
The most important thing is accuracity, becouse we will shot only 1 arrow/turn. Fighter is the best option for this.
There are some options that seems good too like Investiagator, Ranger o Rogue.
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The second important thing is if it's worth to multiclass into a caster delaying 2 levels Eldrich Archer dedication feats.
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Last but not least spells selection.
I like arcane:
Cantrip:
Telekinetic proyectile
1: Hydraulic push (I like to be able to make people fall from the high)
2: Acidd arrow
3: Shocking grasp (H+2)
4: Invisivility (H+2) So enemys are flat-footed to us
Fighter/Eldritch Archer is just a straightforward Very Good build, can't go wrong with it doing normal Archery Fighter things and spamming Eldritch Shot. I'm not a huge fan of this build just because I think it's kinda awkward from a character standpoint to not have any casting integrated into your rotation for five levels and then for it to suddenly be the core of your fighting style but that's a fluff problem, not a crunch one.
Another option could be Precision Ranger - Gravity Weapon and Soothing Mist give you some spells to play with before you get to EA and transition smoothly into a proper primal spellcaster. You need a setup turn, and Hunted Target can make future turns awkward if your initial target dies, but it's workable.
I wouldn't recommend the other martial classes. Investigator and Rogue both have non-strike actions they want to do every round, so you'd never be able to use Eldritch Shot. I also wouldn't recommend a multiclass dedication since you can get the spellcasting benefits stuff from EA anyways.
I'm not a huge fan of this build just because I think it's kinda awkward from a character standpoint to not have any casting integrated into your rotation for five levels and then for it to suddenly be the core of your fighting style but that's a fluff problem, not a crunch one.
My solution on this is that my fighter is trained on arcana and every morning he is spending time trying to cast and studying. He is a halfing tiffling and he is convinced and he feels the magic inside, but for some reason he is not able to cast.
I will role my fighter trying to cast spells in combat, and every time he finds a sorcerer or a wizard I will be fascinated and trying to talk with them to learn.
It will be very epic at level 6 when I will shoot my first magic arrow and it won't feel wonky.
I've been trying to make a good EK build myself. I've come up with two versions.
1. Fighter, Spellcaster Multiclass dedication and feats at levels 2, 4 and 6, then EA dedication at level 8. From there pick up ALL the spellcasting feats for both multiclasses and the Breadth feat for your first Spellcasting Dedication. Gets you 3 spell slots up to level 6 and 2 for levels 7 and 8. Lots of stuff to throw at your enemies while still leaving some slots for buffs/utiilty. Feats are mostly spent at that point, but since the fighter gets basically a bonus feat at level 9 and 15, you still can get some fighter stuff in there.
2. Precision Ranger. Getting Hunted Shot, EA Dedication, Penetrating Shot and Enchanting Shot, giving you lots of different options depending on the situation. Fewer slots for utility, but I feel like the ranger can cover out of combat stuff better due to his greater number of skills. This build also has a bit more room for feats of your main class.
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Let's see what the different classes have to offer
Fighter
A couple of useful feats (Point Blank Shot), but the main selling point here has got to be the fighter's faster-than-thou weapon proficiency increases. Strong choice and straightforward.
Ranger
This doesn't gel as much as you might expect from the class that traditionally delivers lots of archers. Rangers depend on Hunt Prey for a lot of their powerful stuff and that just doesn't get along well with Eldritch Shot. Also, they already have a lot of feats to use bows well, and EA just adds competition. If you do wanna go Ranger though, make sure to pick up Enchanting Arrow as it makes fitting a Hunt and attack action into a single turn more doable. If you also go Precision style, by level 8 your "plan B" attack is still a 2d6+3+2d6+1d8 damage hit. Not that shabby, but plan A would be 2d6+3+4d6+3 when you get that telekinetic projectile on your shortbow going.
Investigator
Has about the same build considerations as the Ranger. Like the ranger you'll be leaning heavily on Enchanting Arrow because you can't always get off Eldritch Shot. However, if you can get a Lead on the enemy before combat, that all changes. I'm planning to try this with an Interrogation methodology investigator myself in Agents of Edgewatch; I'm hoping that I'll be able to Pursue a Lead against people we're talking to trying to get them to get arrested peacefully, but if not, I have my edge. There's some synergy here with the Charisma demands of the Interrogation methodology and EA.
Barbarian
Barbarians have no special aptitude for archery. Rage is for melee weapons. Move along...
Champion
There's no beautiful synergy here although it's not as bad as the barbarian. You like having Charisma. You might have a focus spell with a spell attack roll. You can do super-point-blank archery trying to keep enemies in the 15ft service area of your champion reaction. Still, it's awkward, and you're kinda wasting your class' aptitude for heavy armor here.
Rogue - Eldritch Trickster
The name suggests this was intended to work together and it does, sorta. The problem is that rogues don't have an easy time getting enemies flat-footed, especially if you don't actually have actions to spare. So this really only works if someone else in your party is making enemies flat-footed. If that's the case though, then it's kinda nice cuz you'll have multiple cantrips and sneak attack so you can hit pretty hard.
War Priest
The only full caster that can get into EA at any reasonable level, but your proficiency in bows never advances beyond Expert. So delivering spells by bow vs. just casting them isn't really that much of a difference.
Monk
A monk could become proficient in bows with monastic archery stance, but you can't really combine the monk archery feats with Eldritch Shot.
Other classes
Other classes take too long to qualify for Expert in bows (maybe the Magus in the future).
Rogue might be better off taking the archer archetype for Parting Shot. Should also work with a crossbow if you take running reload for a mobile, once per turn precision attack similar to what a crossbow ranger does.
Warpriest is a poor choice not only because of the limited proficiency, but also due to the lack of spell spells with an attack roll on the Divine list.
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That's not entirely true. By the time this matters (level 11+), you'll be getting the item bonus on your strike from +2 potency runes. That's like having the equivalent accuracy that a Master proficiency spell caster would have for spells with attack rolls. That said, the divine list is a little weak on spells that work well with Eldritch Shot so your mileage may vary based on ability to poach from other lists from your deity or other feats like adaptive cantrip. Gisher has a list he's been floating around.War Priest
The only full caster that can get into EA at any reasonable level, but your proficiency in bows never advances beyond Expert. So delivering spells by bow vs. just casting them isn't really that much of a difference.
That's my cue. ;)
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The following spells require an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cantrips
Acid Splash (Arcane and Primal)
Divine Lance (Divine)
Produce Flame (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Frost (Arcane and Primal)
Tanglefoot (Arcane and Primal)
Telekinetic Projectile (Arcane and Occult)
Level 1
Admonishing Ray (Arcane and Divine)
Hydraulic Push (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Enfeeblement (Arcane, Divine, and Occult)
Shocking Grasp (Arcane and Primal)
Snowball (Arcane and Primal)
Level 2
Acid Arrow (Arcane and Primal)
Spiritual Weapon (Divine and Occult)
Telekinetic Maneuver (Arcane and Occult)
Level 3
Chilling Darkness (Divine)
Searing Light (Divine and Primal)
Level 5
Spiritual Guardian (Divine)
Level 6
Disintegrate (Arcane)
Level 8
Polar Ray (Arcane and Primal)
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The following Focus spells require an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cleric
Charged Javelin 1
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1
Withering Grasp 1
Knights of Lastwall
Sun Blade 2
Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1
Witch
Malicious Shadow 3
Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1
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And here is my Guide to Acquiring Common Cantrips in case you'd like to pick up a few for different damage types.
That's not entirely true. By the time this matters (level 11+), you'll be getting the item bonus on your strike from +2 potency runes. That's like having the equivalent accuracy that a Master proficiency spell caster would have for spells with attack rolls. That said, the divine list is a little weak on spells that work well with Eldritch Shot so your mileage may vary based on ability to poach from other lists from your deity or other feats like adaptive cantrip. Gisher has a list he's been floating around.War Priest
The only full caster that can get into EA at any reasonable level, but your proficiency in bows never advances beyond Expert. So delivering spells by bow vs. just casting them isn't really that much of a difference.
Plus, you can boost your accuracy even further since you can cast Heroism on yourself. Warpriests can be deceptively accurate, depending on the kinds of spells they prepare.
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Plus, you can boost your accuracy even further since you can cast Heroism on yourself. Warpriests can be deceptively accurate, depending on the kinds of spells they prepare.That's not entirely true. By the time this matters (level 11+), you'll be getting the item bonus on your strike from +2 potency runes. That's like having the equivalent accuracy that a Master proficiency spell caster would have for spells with attack rolls. That said, the divine list is a little weak on spells that work well with Eldritch Shot so your mileage may vary based on ability to poach from other lists from your deity or other feats like adaptive cantrip. Gisher has a list he's been floating around.War Priest
The only full caster that can get into EA at any reasonable level, but your proficiency in bows never advances beyond Expert. So delivering spells by bow vs. just casting them isn't really that much of a difference.
That could be a fun build for a Cleric of Erastil. Erastil even has the Earth domain, for picking up an additional Focus Spell you can use with Eldritch Shot.
Let's see what the different classes have to offer
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Investigator
Has about the same build considerations as the Ranger. Like the ranger you'll be leaning heavily on Enchanting Arrow because you can't always get off Eldritch Shot. However, if you can get a Lead on the enemy before combat, that all changes. I'm planning to try this with an Interrogation methodology investigator myself in Agents of Edgewatch; I'm hoping that I'll be able to Pursue a Lead against people we're talking to trying to get them to get arrested peacefully, but if not, I have my edge. There's some synergy here with the Charisma demands of the Interrogation methodology and EA.
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At 10th level you can take Suspect of Opportunity to Pursue a Lead against an opponent as a reaction. With two leads running and this feat usable once an hour, you're likely to be able to combine Devise a Stratagem and Eldritch Shot fairly frequently.
Let's see what the different classes have to offer
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Rogue - Eldritch Trickster
The name suggests this was intended to work together and it does, sorta. The problem is that rogues don't have an easy time getting enemies flat-footed, especially if you don't actually have actions to spare. So this really only works if someone else in your party is making enemies flat-footed. If that's the case though, then it's kinda nice cuz you'll have multiple cantrips and sneak attack so you can hit pretty hard.
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Mastermind might well be better than Eldritch Trickster for an archer. Using Recall Knowledge to render opponents flat-footed sounds great for a ranged Rogue, and you don't really lose much by not getting the free Dedication like Eldritch Tricksters does. And sooo many skills with that high Int.
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Mastermind might well be better than Eldritch Trickster for an archer. Using Recall Knowledge to render opponents flat-footed sounds great for a ranged Rogue, and you don't really lose much by not getting the free Dedication like Eldritch Tricksters does. And sooo many skills with that high Int.Let's see what the different classes have to offer
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Rogue - Eldritch Trickster
The name suggests this was intended to work together and it does, sorta. The problem is that rogues don't have an easy time getting enemies flat-footed, especially if you don't actually have actions to spare. So this really only works if someone else in your party is making enemies flat-footed. If that's the case though, then it's kinda nice cuz you'll have multiple cantrips and sneak attack so you can hit pretty hard.
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The problem with Mastermind is the Additional Knowledge clause of Recall Knowledge;
Sometimes a character might want to follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to discover more information. After a success, further uses of Recall Knowledge can yield more information, but you should adjust the difficulty to be higher for each attempt. Once a character has attempted an incredibly hard check or failed a check, further attempts are fruitless—the character has recalled everything they know about the subject.
It raises a bunch of questions, such as "can you Recall Knowledge against city guard #2 after you already did it on city guard #1?" and "what if you encountered the same city guards in the previous encounter, because this adventure recycles statblocks"?
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The problem with Mastermind is the Additional Knowledge clause of Recall Knowledge;
Sometimes a character might want to follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to discover more information. After a success, further uses of Recall Knowledge can yield more information, but you should adjust the difficulty to be higher for each attempt. Once a character has attempted an incredibly hard check or failed a check, further attempts are fruitless—the character has recalled everything they know about the subject.It raises a bunch of questions, such as "can you Recall Knowledge against city guard #2 after you already did it on city guard #1?" and "what if you encountered the same city guards in the previous encounter, because this adventure recycles statblocks"?When I GM, I interpret that clause about Additional Information above being relevant only when a player was doing a second (or greater) recall knowledge check on the exact same creature with the express intent of learning more than the first time they succeed.
Doing a new check on guard 2 might not result in the same info from guard 1. If I'm doing it, I'm spending the action to assess the target -- if I get the exact same info that's fine and that way it doesn't lock out the player from what they're pretty clearly intended to do. The ranger with Monster Hunter or the Investigator have similar powers that trigger off of Hunt Prey and Design a Stratagem and I've never seen a GM not let them roll new knowledge checks to trigger their powers.
Even if Guard 1 and Guard 2 survive and we fight them later, I have no reason as a player to know that they have not improved their skills. I can still spend my action to assess them. I may not learn anything more, but I would probably recognize "oh right, he leans left, I can make him flatfooted."
Agree with this.
I also thought the Mastermind Rogue was more a Sherlock Holmes-esque instant psychoanalysis, at least for humanoid creatures. Maybe I just like the flavor of the Rogue looking at City Guard #2, saying "You're right about your wife and the baker," and the target being so distraught that the Rogue gets sneak attack.
Mastermind might well be better than Eldritch Trickster for an archer. Using Recall Knowledge to render opponents flat-footed sounds great for a ranged Rogue, and you don't really lose much by not getting the free Dedication like Eldritch Tricksters does. And sooo many skills with that high Int.Let's see what the different classes have to offer
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Rogue - Eldritch Trickster
The name suggests this was intended to work together and it does, sorta. The problem is that rogues don't have an easy time getting enemies flat-footed, especially if you don't actually have actions to spare. So this really only works if someone else in your party is making enemies flat-footed. If that's the case though, then it's kinda nice cuz you'll have multiple cantrips and sneak attack so you can hit pretty hard.
...The problem with Mastermind is the Additional Knowledge clause of Recall Knowledge;
Sometimes a character might want to follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to discover more information. After a success, further uses of Recall Knowledge can yield more information, but you should adjust the difficulty to be higher for each attempt. Once a character has attempted an incredibly hard check or failed a check, further attempts are fruitless—the character has recalled everything they know about the subject.It raises a bunch of questions, such as "can you Recall Knowledge against city guard #2 after you already did it on city guard #1?" and "what if you encountered the same city guards in the previous encounter, because this adventure recycles statblocks"?
I would argue that, for an archer Rogue, having an additional method for rendering opponents flat-footed at a distance is better than not having that method - even if the additional method has limitations.
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Mastermind Rogue can work, but really needs to go into the Archer archetype for Parting Shot imo. That way you have a reliable backup plan for when the limitations of Recall Knowledge arise. Naturally that makes it difficult to play an Eldritch Archer.
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The problem with Mastermind is the Additional Knowledge clause of Recall Knowledge;
Sometimes a character might want to follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to discover more information. After a success, further uses of Recall Knowledge can yield more information, but you should adjust the difficulty to be higher for each attempt. Once a character has attempted an incredibly hard check or failed a check, further attempts are fruitless—the character has recalled everything they know about the subject.It raises a bunch of questions, such as "can you Recall Knowledge against city guard #2 after you already did it on city guard #1?" and "what if you encountered the same city guards in the previous encounter, because this adventure recycles statblocks"?When I GM, I interpret that clause about Additional Information above being relevant only when a player was doing a second (or greater) recall knowledge check on the exact same creature with the express intent of learning more than the first time they succeed.
Doing a new check on guard 2 might not result in the same info from guard 1. If I'm doing it, I'm spending the action to assess the target -- if I get the exact same info that's fine and that way it doesn't lock out the player from what they're pretty clearly intended to do. The ranger with Monster Hunter or the Investigator have similar powers that trigger off of Hunt Prey and Design a Stratagem and I've never seen a GM not let them roll new knowledge checks to trigger their powers.
Even if Guard 1 and Guard 2 survive and we fight them later, I have no reason as a player to know that they have not improved their skills. I can still spend my action to assess them. I may not learn anything more, but I would probably recognize "oh right, he leans left, I can make him flatfooted."
Well, that's adding a house rule to make the racket work. RAW you can't really Recall Knowledge without trying to recall knowledge. But it's probably the same house rule I'd use, because wouldn't it be nice if the racket was actually playable?
It's still not ideal for Eldritch Shot because you can't really RK to get people flat-footed and do the 3-action ES at the same time, unless you critted the RK check last round.
Updating the list based on the new CRB printing.
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The following spells require an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cantrips
Acid Splash (Arcane and Primal)
Divine Lance (Divine)
Produce Flame (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Frost (Arcane and Primal)
Tanglefoot (Arcane and Primal)
Telekinetic Projectile (Arcane and Occult)
Level 1
Admonishing Ray (Arcane and Divine)
Hydraulic Push (Arcane and Primal)
Ray of Enfeeblement (Arcane, Divine, and Occult)
Shocking Grasp (Arcane and Primal)
Snowball (Arcane and Primal)
Level 2
Acid Arrow (Arcane and Primal)
Telekinetic Maneuver (Arcane and Occult)
Level 3
Chilling Darkness (Divine)
Searing Light (Divine and Primal)
Level 6
Disintegrate (Arcane)
Level 8
Polar Ray (Arcane and Primal)
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The following Focus spells require an attack roll and take one or two actions to cast.
Cleric
Charged Javelin 1
Fire Ray 1
Hurtling Stone 1
Moonbeam 1
Winter Bolt 1
Withering Grasp 1
Knights of Lastwall
Sun Blade 2
Sorcerer
Elemental Toss 1
Witch
Malicious Shadow 3
Wizard
Call of the Grave 1
Hand of the Apprentice 1