What do you like about the playtest Summoner?

[Salamileg]

I thought I'd make this thread for both classes, as while there's a lot of threads about what change we want to see, I think it's a good idea to give the devs an idea of what people want to stay the same.

I like that ghosts and dragons can be eidolons. There was some discussion prior to the playtest about whether these creatures should be eidolons, and I'm personally very happy to see them here.

I like how the Summoner's action economy works. I really like sharing a pool of actions with your eidolon, and how it works differently from minions. Act Together is a brilliant way of doing things, though I wouldn't mind if it could be used as a part of a multi-action activity (like, you use Act Together, your eidolon strides, you use one of the actions towards casting a cantrip).

I like that you can effectively have you eidolon present constantly. I wasn't sure which way this would go, and I'm happy it's here.

I like that Synthesist is an option right away, as opposed to a future book. While it's not perfect mechanically, the Synthesist is a huge fantasy for a lot of people, particularly ones who just want to play a monster. One of my players is excited to finally get to play Venom.

I like that the Summoner is another multi-tradition caster. It feels super fitting to have a type of casting that is associated with your eidolon, like being a divine caster alongside an angel. However, I do hope that the Summoner is the last multi-tradition caster we get for a while, since we've gotten one in ever book with classes so far.

[Martialmasters]

I'm intrigued by the spell slot system they use.

That's it. Everything else can be done better even via Archetypes. For both classes. That's not me trying to be harsh. Just honest.

[SkylerJB]

Multi-tradition is the most important thing for me and it was met.

Summoners can now reflect many different kinds of individuals in Golarion and help bring the fantasy of characters who can call upon a mystical ally to aid them. With the archetype system, this will only promote more flexibility.

More importantly the multi-tradition casting and eidolons permit Summoners to reflect different cultures and traditions in the setting. From Sarkorian godcallers, to Nidelese priests and their kytons, and other concepts.

I don't know how the mechanics will work out in the end, but from a narrative point of view I believe the Paizo staff has done a wonderful job of making the Summoner not only part of the setting of Golarion, but an integral piece to it. I like the fantasy of it and I'm happy to welcome the class into the game.

[KrispyXIV]

I like how your spell tradition is dependent on your eidolon. This greatly expands the roles a Summoner character can take on, and greatly expands the lore and backstory options for the class.

I like how shared hp and actions make your Eidolon function as an extension of your character, as opposed to a mundane pet like an animal companion. I thinn there are a lot of possibilities to exploit this action economy that are largely unexplored.

I like how I'm narratively free to design my eidolon down to its attacks, and explicitly not required to dump resources into cosmetic items. Evolution feats let me enhance my Eidolon but mostly don't define it, and Evolution Surge lets me cover most of the fundamentals.

I like how the Math is set up - Martial bonuses, but without the bells and whistles that define the Martial classes. This means that a Summoner shouldn't be causing all sorts of negative feels by Dominating encounters and stealing everyone else's identity.

I like the insane skill proficiency I get by being able to diversify and allow my Eidolon to cover a number of physical skill aspects, while my character covers the mental.

I like that the current setup allows for unrestricted access to other mechanics, like Animal Companions or Familiars, because the current mechanics ensure that's not a balance issue.

I'm very excited about this class.

[Verzen]

I like that they combined Spiritualist in with summoner. That was a pleasant surprise. I do like that they share HP as well and can work together. That 'concept' is what I like. The execution of it needs work, though. I do like the idea of being multi-traditional as a caster.

[Dubious Scholar]

KrispyXIV wrote:

I like how I'm narratively free to design my eidolon down to its attacks, and explicitly not required to dump resources into cosmetic items. Evolution feats let me enhance my Eidolon but mostly don't define it, and Evolution Surge lets me cover most of the fundamentals.

This is the single biggest thing for me. It's super, super easy to concept what I want my eidolon to be and then make it work.

[MaxAstro]

I'm gonna get hate for this, I'm sure, but I really like the action economy.

I didn't think I would at first read, but after thinking about it some more it's really very clean. The fact that you can choose how important "your" actions are compared to your Eidolons actions on a round-by-round basis is very cool.

Overall the implementation of the Eidolon as an extension of the Summoner probably isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I really like it, and it cleanly avoids some of the issues that the 1e version of the class had.

[Martialmasters]

MaxAstro wrote:

I'm gonna get hate for this, I'm sure, but I really like the action economy.

I didn't think I would at first read, but after thinking about it some more it's really very clean. The fact that you can choose how important "your" actions are compared to your Eidolons actions on a round-by-round basis is very cool.

Overall the implementation of the Eidolon as an extension of the Summoner probably isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I really like it, and it cleanly avoids some of the issues that the 1e version of the class had.

While also making you overall objectively weaker than a ranger with an animal companion. And also less fluid in your use of actions. Requiring a feat to even pseudo surpass. And using nearly if not all your feats to making your eidolon body be ok. While the ranger only needs to sink half that.

Ahh but you get spells! 4 of them. It's something I guess.

[KrispyXIV]

Martialmasters wrote:

MaxAstro wrote:

I'm gonna get hate for this, I'm sure, but I really like the action economy.

I didn't think I would at first read, but after thinking about it some more it's really very clean. The fact that you can choose how important "your" actions are compared to your Eidolons actions on a round-by-round basis is very cool.

Overall the implementation of the Eidolon as an extension of the Summoner probably isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I really like it, and it cleanly avoids some of the issues that the 1e version of the class had.

While also making you overall objectively weaker than a ranger with an animal companion. And also less fluid in your use of actions. Requiring a feat to even pseudo surpass. And using nearly if not all your feats to making your eidolon body be ok. While the ranger only needs to sink half that.

Ahh but you get spells! 4 of them. It's something I guess.

Yeah, I dont agree. Animal Companions are ok at best, and Rangers get crappy delayed progression on them.

I think I'd absolutely reccomend a Beast Summoner as it stands to anyone who wanted the pet to be their focus.

[MaxAstro]

Martialmasters wrote:

MaxAstro wrote:

I'm gonna get hate for this, I'm sure, but I really like the action economy.

I didn't think I would at first read, but after thinking about it some more it's really very clean. The fact that you can choose how important "your" actions are compared to your Eidolons actions on a round-by-round basis is very cool.

Overall the implementation of the Eidolon as an extension of the Summoner probably isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I really like it, and it cleanly avoids some of the issues that the 1e version of the class had.

While also making you overall objectively weaker than a ranger with an animal companion. And also less fluid in your use of actions. Requiring a feat to even pseudo surpass. And using nearly if not all your feats to making your eidolon body be ok. While the ranger only needs to sink half that.

Ahh but you get spells! 4 of them. It's something I guess.

This is not the thread for this, I think.

[Thebazilly]

I like that the Eidolon is a large part of how the character works and will be present almost all the time (and even helpful for exploration). I like that Eidolons can be dragons, spirits, outsiders, elementals, fey, and/or animals. I like that the Summoner preserves the idea of having a character casting buffs onto a mostly-martial eidolon, without overpowering other characters. I like that the Eidolon and Summoner share HP and actions.

[RexAliquid]

I really like that the summoner is a multi-tradition caster. I also like the abilities of the different eidolon forms. Your choice of eidolon affects the style of play it is suited for.

[Cydeth]

The spell slot system is interesting, and being able to use multiple traditions is interesting.

However, everything else, especially the way your tradition is linked to the type of eidolon, makes it a complete non-starter for me. I cannot convince myself to play a Summoner, despite it being one of my favorite styles of characters.

[Thaliak]

I like that the summoner is designed to address the problems people had with it in 1E. Sharing actions, skill increases and health, as well as competing for class feat slots, should keep the summoner and eidolon from eclipsing other players in their areas of expertise or hogging table time.

I like that the summoner offers another way to play physically weak characters. I'll still need dexterity for AC, like any caster, but beyond that, I can play someone who rises to the occasion despite physical limitations rather than being groomed from birth for combat and adventure. Having said that, I'd love to see a more martial path for the summoner that encourages him to fight alongside his eidolon.

Speaking of fighting, I like that the summoner lets players experiment with physical combat and spells at the same time.

I find summoners' spell repertoire easier to think about than most casters'. Instead of asking what spells I'll learn at every level, I can scan the tradition's spell list for four strong and thematically-appropriate spells and call it a day. For someone who engages with the system primarily by building characters, that's a big plus.

I'm glad the summoner has access to all four traditions. Mix in multiclassing, and that can enable a variety of character concepts.

Edit: I'm also grateful most of the eidolon's power is baked in. If I want to play a character whose eidolon is an imaginary dog he played with as a child, I can spend a single feat giving the dog Scent, then ignore evolution feats. I don't need to make the dog huge or give it 13 attacks for it to contribute.