Elitism in the pathfinder 2 community on Roll20

[ryokoryu]

Hi, I am a visually impaired player of Palladium games for over a decade I wanted to try PF2 with the changes it made (changes for a lot of things I hated about D&D that PF2 was now doing differently). I play on roll20 and have been trying to get into one of the new player games people keep posting there. A lot of people posting games asking for new players end up taking experienced players over new players. Today I was informed by the GM of a "Fall of the Plaguestone tutorial" exact game name that he was kicking me out because I didn't have my character pre-rolled and ready and someone who knows the game had one ready to go so I am out and the experienced player takes my spot in the tutorial. This is common, getting kicked from newbie games for experienced players or posting my app and watching people talking about their months of experience getting invited to games specifically asking for new players over the new players. I compare this to the palladium community on R20 we will not even mark the game as new player friendly and we bend over backwards trying to help them. is this a common problem throughout this community or is it a roll20 thing.
I do need something like R20 because play by text games are too hard to keep up on with my vision issues. These same issues make it hard for me to learn by reading, it takes so much concentration reading that I don't absorb it. IF it is a R20 problem is there another free VTT where I can find a better experience?

[pauljathome]

Where have you been finding these roll20 games? Your experience seems very different to mine (I'm an experienced player but often encounter newbies in games I play or run). In my experience games run on the Organized Play server are welcoming and friendly (I'm NOT saying that I don't believe you, just trying to ascertain why our experiences are different).

Are the GMs aware ahead of time that you are visually impaired? I've played at and run several tables with visually impaired players and there have been no issues that I'm aware of. It IS a little bit more work on the GM's part but it's work that any even vaguely decent human being will be willing to take on. But knowing ahead of time is key, thus is not something to spring on the GM at the last moment.

It is common practice that you have your character ready to go at game time. Not having it ready means everybody else must wait. But many GMs will help you ahead of the game if asked. At the least, they should let you play a pregen. Or just have you roll things at the table without a sheet. I've set up a couple of simple macros for players to quickly use.

It is also possible you've been having a run of bad luck and hitting bunches of outliers.

Not sure any of the above helps :-(

[mrspaghetti]

Try finding games on Warhorn, I have had very good luck that way.

[ryokoryu]

Yes I do put that in my posts (usually) I occasionally forget to.

[Exton Land]

I would reiterate what Paul said. Online games assume you have your character ready to go, by and large. There's no reason you couldn't play a pregenerated character, but ultimately it's up to the person offering the game.

My advice would be to join the Pathfinder Society Organized Play discord server. Games are run there all the time. Link: http://pfschat.com There are two or three visually impaired players. As opposed to other communities, society play (aka organized play) has various guidelines about being a better person than your average netizen. In fact if you don't have a character the GM is supposed to offer you a pregenerated character made by Paizo to show off the class. Not always "optimized", but they do what they're supposed to.

The full rules for organized play can be found here: http://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/encyclopedia/pfs2guide/ Short version, anything that is uncommon is not available as a character option. If you take a commonly available option, it may open up uncommon options. Like bards get access to the uncommon spell "Inspire Courage", or someone from the nation of New Thassalon can speak the uncommon language Thassalonian. Otherwise, build to your hearts content.

[ryokoryu]

Game time is also next Friday

[TwilightKnight]

Is this perhaps a case of miscommunication? I ask because some GMs ask that you have your character ready to go and the player sign up sheet completed in advance of the session. Failure to do so could put your participation at risk. Because online play is so easy to sign up for and then just not show (it doesn't happen a lot, but often enough to be an irritant), some GMs won't wait until the last second to take action, especially if they have wait-listed players. If you have a week or more to import your character and complete the sign up sheet, but fail to do so, they may assume you are not a reliable player and move on to a wait-listed player. Of course ideally that would include at least some level of communication to clarify the situation. If you plan to run your character off a printed sheet, or perhaps you use your own custom macros, the GM may not know that so its important to communicate with them, vice versa.

As stated above, you may have just encountered a run of bad luck. Generally, we don't hear much about GMs arbitrarily booting players or cherry-picking the ones they want from the wait-list. If you have a problem with a particular GM or feel you have been treated unfairly (and this really goes for anyone in the online community) you are encouraged to report the incident to the online Venture-Officers. They can investigate the issue and if necessary take appropriate corrective action. If someone is repeatedly being unwelcoming to players, new or otherwise, they probably should not be participating in the online public community.

Good luck

EDIT--it occurs to me that the games described may have been found in Warhorn or directly from the Roll20 list. In that case, it really is a crap-shoot. Those GMs can pretty much do whatever they want since their game exists outside the official PFS online environment. If that is the case, then definitely you should consider looking into the Discord link above thread. It will dramatically improve your experience, not only with individual games, but the users in the Discord community are incredibly helpful up to and including having semi-private sessions with screen sharing to help you navigate both the campaign rules and online tools like Roll20.

[Lanathar]

I got put off warhorn when one of the games seemed like it expected a lot in advance in a really demanding tone - “we expect you to have your own macros set up” etc

I took one look at Roll20 macros and got utterly baffled

But as an aside all GMs advertising new player games should have some pregens loaded into their VTT that they could allocate to new players . Having pregens ready to go is just part and parcel of GMing for newbies

I have like 4 in mine. And that is only because making spell casters in Roll20 without the books is a nightmare. And we had a monk and ranger so I didn’t add them. I think I added them to be 4th in a game where someone couldn’t make it

[Ascalaphus]

Lanathar wrote:

I got put off warhorn when one of the games seemed like it expected a lot in advance in a really demanding tone - “we expect you to have your own macros set up” etc

I took one look at Roll20 macros and got utterly baffled

I understand your frustration, but I think it makes more sense if you also see the viewpoint of those people.

Showing up to a roll20 game without a set-up character is a lot like showing up to a real-life game without a character. Or if you try to fill in a chronicle sheet during the game, it's a bit like someone who spends the first hour of a real-life game filling in a character sheet based on a badly taken picture they have of their character sheet on their phone. It slows things down, causes mistakes, confusion and floundering. It's a bit like someone coming up to a game with their level 7 wizard but who doesn't know what their spells do, so has to look them all up in the middle of combat.

The other people at the table were expecting the game to start at the starting time; if they have to wait half an hour because you didn't do their homework, you've just made six people waste half an hour. That's pretty rude.

So the problem is - people who were too lazy to do their homework, vs. people who wanted to do well but needed some initial help to get going. With a side dish of people who just didn't know that they were supposed to come prepared.

---

Roll20 (and the same probably goes for the other VTT platforms) has built-in character sheets that really help to speed up the game. Instead of painstakingly typing in every roll and calculating results, they can automate that and doing a skill check is just pressing a button and you get your result.

And more: setting up these character sheets is something you can do on your own time, and then when it's game time you can import them to someone's table. And when you play with other people the next day, import them to the next table. So that's already 12 other people who save half an hour because you spent half an hour doing your preparations.

[Davor Firetusk]

For whatever its worth this is the first thread or instruction I've see that is explicit about this expectation of having characters set-up in roll20. From my local lodge I got the sense of more varied expectations, and when I had to finally learn a little but of roll20 to keep our home game going I didn't find a compelling reason to need people to load their characters. I then felt really out of place when I tried to jump into a PaizoCon game where none of this had been communicated. I dropped out quickly and haven't tried an online play since.

[ryokoryu]

It wasn't showing up to game session not prepared, I was invited Saturday the game was this coming Friday. We scheduled to go over making my character yesterday (Sunday) afternoon and when I got there he informed me he had replaced em with someone who had a character ready to go. I already had a concept I posted in my application. A gnome rogue who was an undercover operative for the law. Would have a background in law enforcement. That with it's stat boost and skills/lore. I wasn't going in blind I just need help making sure I cover everything because I can easily read a step and not realize it at all. I am good at creating story backgrounds and concepts.

[WatersLethe]

I've been put off by online play with pick up groups from years of MMOs. I kind of expected the OP's complaints to be commonplace, but from what others are saying maybe my expectations are unfair.

[ryokoryu]

Also I did join the discord so hopefully it will be better here. There was communication with this GM where before he replaced me he was aware I was going to need the help.

[ryokoryu]

Already the response here on just the forums has been worlds more than I got elsewhere so I expect it will be better.

[Ascalaphus]

ryokoryu wrote:

It wasn't showing up to game session not prepared, I was invited Saturday the game was this coming Friday. We scheduled to go over making my character yesterday (Sunday) afternoon and when I got there he informed me he had replaced em with someone who had a character ready to go. I already had a concept I posted in my application. A gnome rogue who was an undercover operative for the law. Would have a background in law enforcement. That with it's stat boost and skills/lore. I wasn't going in blind I just need help making sure I cover everything because I can easily read a step and not realize it at all. I am good at creating story backgrounds and concepts.

That sounds like you got some rather bizarre treatment, not at all what I would normally expect in the community.

[MaxAstro]

Yeah, not having a character ready to go on game day is one thing, but kicking someone out for not having a character a week in advance seems... a bit extreme.

[Ascalaphus]

I will say, I don't think Plaguestone is the best choice as a getting to know you module with strangers.

- It's a bit long for that, it can easily run into six or more sessions, so scheduling all that with people who you don't know yet is a bit chancy.

- It's remarkably deadly, much more so than typical adventures. It doesn't really give a good impression of what a normal adventure is like.

[rainzax]

Also:

If you need help making your character HERE in this thread, I'm sure I am not the only one willing to help...?

[pauljathome]

ryokoryu wrote:

It wasn't showing up to game session not prepared, I was invited Saturday the game was this coming Friday. We scheduled to go over making my character yesterday (Sunday) afternoon and when I got there he informed me he had replaced em with someone who had a character ready to go. I already had a concept I posted in my application. A gnome rogue who was an undercover operative for the law. Would have a background in law enforcement. That with it's stat boost and skills/lore. I wasn't going in blind I just need help making sure I cover everything because I can easily read a step and not realize it at all. I am good at creating story backgrounds and concepts.

That sounds a lot like you just got unlucky with a jerk GM. They exist but they are absolutely NOT normal in my experience.

[Perpdepog]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Lanathar wrote:

I got put off warhorn when one of the games seemed like it expected a lot in advance in a really demanding tone - “we expect you to have your own macros set up” etc

I took one look at Roll20 macros and got utterly baffled

I understand your frustration, but I think it makes more sense if you also see the viewpoint of those people.

Showing up to a roll20 game without a set-up character is a lot like showing up to a real-life game without a character. Or if you try to fill in a chronicle sheet during the game, it's a bit like someone who spends the first hour of a real-life game filling in a character sheet based on a badly taken picture they have of their character sheet on their phone. It slows things down, causes mistakes, confusion and floundering. It's a bit like someone coming up to a game with their level 7 wizard but who doesn't know what their spells do, so has to look them all up in the middle of combat.

The other people at the table were expecting the game to start at the starting time; if they have to wait half an hour because you didn't do their homework, you've just made six people waste half an hour. That's pretty rude.

So the problem is - people who were too lazy to do their homework, vs. people who wanted to do well but needed some initial help to get going. With a side dish of people who just didn't know that they were supposed to come prepared.

---

Roll20 (and the same probably goes for the other VTT platforms) has built-in character sheets that really help to speed up the game. Instead of painstakingly typing in every roll and calculating results, they can automate that and doing a skill check is just pressing a button and you get your result.

And more: setting up these character sheets is something you can do on your own time, and then when it's game time you can import them to someone's table. And when you play with other people the next day, import them to the next table. So that's already 12 other people who save half an hour because...

While I don't know the OP or any of the assistive tech they may or may not have to use, I can tell you that, as a player who isn't only visually impaired but totally blind, those auto-fill sheets on Roll20 are an absolute nightmare. To my screen reader they're nothing but a seemingly endless field of edit boxes, many of which pull focus to themselves, so that when I think I am editing one part of the sheet I'm actually editing another, and actually moving through my sheet to read what I can do is laborious because of those self-same boxes. It got so bad that I've since started making TXT templates of a character sheet for whatever system and doing the calculations myself

[rainzax]

Lanathar wrote:

I got put off warhorn when one of the games seemed like it expected a lot in advance in a really demanding tone - “we expect you to have your own macros set up” etc

Lolf$%&thattable

[Claxon]

I only use roll20 to play with people I personally know...so I can't speak to pick up groups.

Honestly, it just seems like something I wouldn't do.

Stay stronk and hope you can find a group to play with consistently.

[Ediwir]

Tbh roll20 without macros is a pain. A lot of base functionality is just not there... Or at least a lot of what I now consider base functionality, which might have changed in the last few months.

Either way, I haven't got much experience in finding games on roll20 because the few times I tried it never really went too well and I moved elsewhere. All the players / games I found for pf2 in the last year and a half or so have been through www.discord.gg/pathfinder and I would warmly suggest it.
I had to get a substitute player the other day and got it sorted in a few hours. As usual, it's easier for GMs than for players, but there is demand. As long as timezones fit...

[TwilightKnight]

The good thing is you can do the vast majority of actions in Roll20 just by entering your ability scores, saves, perception, skills, and a couple of weapons. Something that will take just a few minutes and doesn't require any macro knowledge. The sheet does all the work/calculations for you. Completing the rest of the sheet is great and would really help in the long run, but mostly you just want to be able to roll attacks, saves, initiative, and skill checks.

[Temperans]

macros are great to learn

[mrspaghetti]

Temperans wrote:

macros are great to learn

I'm pretty new to roll20, can you give me an example of a macro that is handy which is not already covered by the character sheet?

[Temperans]

I mostly play PF1 so I havent done much with the PF2 sheet.

However things like: Adding bonus dice (runes and traits), adding bonus damage (specialization, rage, spell damage, etc.), custom attack sequences (to speed up things like Ranger or Monk), adding buttons to make rolls without having to open the sheet (useful for exploration skills and frequent attacks), etc.

Its also capable of allowing you to randomly choose an attack description and then roll an attack.

*************

An example for adding bonus damage its something like: [[floor((1+@(level))/8)*3]] to calculate Master Weapon Specialization (at least for some classes).

[DM Torillan]

mrspaghetti wrote:

Temperans wrote:

macros are great to learn

I'm pretty new to roll20, can you give me an example of a macro that is handy which is not already covered by the character sheet?

I use this one to speed things up as a GM. It allows me to just select a token and it will roll initiative from whichever sheet it attached to the token (works for NPCs or PCs too)

%{selected|initiative}

Yes, I could do it from each monster sheet, but this helps with multiple mooks.

I also set up one to whisper Flat Checks to me as GM automatically. Huge time saver.

/gmroll 1d20

Not sure what my players have developed, but the Roll20 forums may have some ideas for you, or even on the Roll20 subreddit <shudder>.

Good luck!

[Barkul]

I've worked with the disability community for almost 30 years in a volunteer or professional capacity. While I'm neuroatypical, I do not have a visual disability and I do not speak for that community. I do think the OP had a good point about privilege within the role playing community. I think the majority of people don't intend to be dismissive, but having not experienced it themselves, just might be unaware of the challenges. I also think the OP just hit some really jerky GMs.

So, there's two things I see as possible solutions. Coding for people with visual disabilities can be a challenge, so I asked around and here's a link to some coding insights from a person with similar frustrations: https://www.perkinselearning.org/technology/blog/accessible-coding

As to the table itself, any decent GM should welcome diverse participation. You may want to communicate privately and see if their pace or GM style matches your play style and are willing to work with you. Ideally, every GM should be able to, but we all know that's not always the case.

For the rest of us, self included, here are some links on inclusive gaming. This seems like a good time to explore the issue:

https://www.masterthedungeon.com/inclusive-dd/

And this is a look from the criticism side, which offers insights as to how 5e failed a few times:
http://analoggamestudies.org/2018/03/blinded-by-the-roll-the-critical-fail- of-disability-in-dd/

Ultimately, table quality determines a person's enjoyment of any game, including PF and other TTRPGs. A GM should work to make their table inclusive door all players. In my 5e table, we have one Latina, two people with non binary gender expression, one of whom is neuroatypical, another neuroatypical male whom is white, and two white guys including the DM. There are a few others who are not always guaranteed to participate. But the table has felt welcome each time, and I hope OP finds one who is willing to work with them. I wish you all health and happy role playing!

[pauljathome]

Perpdepog wrote:

. I can tell you that, as a player who isn't only visually impaired but totally blind, those auto-fill sheets on Roll20 are an absolute nightmare.

I've GMed for a visually impaired player on at least 2 occasions. On one, the player sent me a non roll20 character sheet before the game (a fairly simple character) and I just created the roll20 character sheet for him. Took me less than 10 minutes and was something that I was more than happy to do. Roll20 makes it quite easy for him to then save that sheet for later use.

The other already had a roll20 sheet and I just had to import it. I don't know if he got somebody else to originally create it or not.

When I've played alongside visually impaired players they sometimes had a sheet, sometimes used simple macros.

But my faith in the Organized Play Server is such that I'm absolutely certain that if somebody showed up there saying "I'm visually impaired and need help creating a roll20 character sheet" they'd rapidly get the help they needed.

Might take longer for the other VTTs but only because the number of people currently using the other VTTs there is much lower.

I have no clue how USEABLE the sheets are for various levels of visual impairment/assistive tech but getting the sheet in the first place is doable if the person is willing to ask (which I do recognize is uncomfortable/uacceptable for some people).

[Watery Soup]

The OP's visual impairment and the OP getting bumped for an experienced player appear to be two different issues.

The GM bumped him for an experienced player (which is a huge jerk move regardless of who the OP is, the protocol should be the exact opposite - asking experienced players to give up seats for new players) without knowing if he was visually impaired.

So solving the OP's problem takes two separate actions: 1. How to make a setup that is friendly for the visually impaired, and 2. how to find a GM who is not a jerk.

It sounds like people have been trying on both fronts but I just wanted to point out a solution that is helpful will need to include both parts. If OP has problems reading the sheets, the friendlist GM won't make the OP's experience a good one.

[TwilightKnight]

Derail:

Watery Soup wrote:

the protocol should be the exact opposite - asking experienced players to give up seats for new players

Why should anyone have to give up their virtual seat? We have nearly unlimited online gaming. We're not talking about a new player showing up at a FLGS not knowing the sign up procedures and the organizer asking one of the experienced players to give up their seat so they don't have to send a new player away. Online it should be a relatively simple matter of moving to another table, especially if we're talking about a week in advance of the actual event.

[Ed Reppert]

An organized play event with a (hopefully large) number of tables all playing the same scenario is quite a different thing from a single GM running a table, online or off.

[Ferious Thune]

I don’t think the OP was signing up for a Society game. I don’t think the GM should have kicked them from the game, but I don’t think we should apply organized play rules to it, either. Like others, I think that starting with a Pathfinder Society game might be a good thing to try, as it tends to be a very welcoming and helpful community. Random non-society games found on roll20 are much less likely to be that.

[rainzax]

TwilightKnight wrote:

Derail:

Why should anyone have to give up their virtual seat? We have nearly unlimited online gaming. We're not talking about a new player showing up at a FLGS not knowing the sign up procedures and the organizer asking one of the experienced players to give up their seat so they don't have to send a new player away. Online it should be a relatively simple matter of moving to another table, especially if we're talking about a week in advance of the actual event.

Response to Derail:

Because that is how you grow a community. It's not about supply and demand. It's about a culture of inclusivity.

[mrspaghetti]

rainzax wrote:

TwilightKnight wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Wouldn't the most inclusive possible solution be for nobody to be forced to give up their seat? Which is what @TwilightKnight is saying, unless I'm misunderstanding.

[Ed Reppert]

A person who is asked to give up his seat isn't being forced to give up his seat.

[Watery Soup]

TwilightKnight wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

I agree with you if, in fact, there is "unlimited" online gaming.

There are more games accessible, but not anywhere close to "unlimited," especially when it comes to the APs and modules. Even with scenarios, there is rarely another of the same game with the same schedule.

The much-vaulted "2 table solution" where 1 table breaks into 2 is basically a fantasy in most places, online or F2F - it requires someone able to jump up and GM on the spot to get the second table going. 1 GM + 7 players => 2 GMs + 3 players + 3 players.

I heartily welcome all these theoretical people who care so much about everyone finding a game that they're confident it's not the new player who gets the shaft. But in a practical sense, when finding everyone a game inevitably fails, the best communities have experienced players willing to take a temporary sacrifice, having confidence they'll be (a) paid back directly in the future, or (b) paid back indirectly with a larger player pool.

[MaxAstro]

Ed Reppert wrote:

A person who is asked to give up his seat isn't being forced to give up his seat.

Exactly this.

[Perpdepog]

pauljathome wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

. I can tell you that, as a player who isn't only visually impaired but totally blind, those auto-fill sheets on Roll20 are an absolute nightmare.

I've GMed for a visually impaired player on at least 2 occasions. On one, the player sent me a non roll20 character sheet before the game (a fairly simple character) and I just created the roll20 character sheet for him. Took me less than 10 minutes and was something that I was more than happy to do. Roll20 makes it quite easy for him to then save that sheet for later use.

The other already had a roll20 sheet and I just had to import it. I don't know if he got somebody else to originally create it or not.

When I've played alongside visually impaired players they sometimes had a sheet, sometimes used simple macros.

But my faith in the Organized Play Server is such that I'm absolutely certain that if somebody showed up there saying "I'm visually impaired and need help creating a roll20 character sheet" they'd rapidly get the help they needed.

Might take longer for the other VTTs but only because the number of people currently using the other VTTs there is much lower.

I have no clue how USEABLE the sheets are for various levels of visual impairment/assistive tech but getting the sheet in the first place is doable if the person is willing to ask (which I do recognize is uncomfortable/uacceptable for some people).

And I've done that a few times, too. My TXT templates are fairly ugly, no fancy formatting, but they are also very readable and easy for most GMs to port to their preferred sheet if they want to. I tend to pattern my character sheets off how statblocks are presented in bestiaries. And actually about nine times out of ten the GM won't even ask me to send my sheet anymore and just work off the honor system.

Also, to harken back to 5E, their fumbles with accessibility--particularly not selling their flagship products in PDF form--is pretty much what turned me off the system. I didn't like the feeling of being kept from the game and even now, when things are a little easier to find, I don't care for the game because of those early impressions.
Contrast that with Paizo's policy of putting up all their rules in not one but two pretty easily navigated websites, and specially marking up their symbology in their PDF documents, and it's not surprising I've been a PF fan for just shy of a decade.

[ograx]

Sounds like you need to ditch Roll20 and get Foundry. Join the Foundry discord and find a game there.

[Tarondor]

Cripes. Why is it so easy for people to forget that that this a game, not a job? If you want to run a game that doesn’t give a damn about helping people with less experience, that is your prerogative, but make that clear in your posting. Maybe something like “We’re antisocial jerks - you have been warned.”

Look, if you’re offering a game to the public you have to expect varying levels of skill and experience.

Last thought: You don’t need Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds or Foundry. I run my regular game on Discord and use Google Slides for the maps. I strongly prefer the simplicity to all the tech that just gets in the way of the story.

[TwilightKnight]

MaxAstro wrote:

Ed Reppert wrote:

A person who is asked to give up his seat isn't being forced to give up his seat.

Exactly this.

Unfortunately, simply asking someone to give up their seat can easily be interpreted as bullying. The way way people present it, they are essentially suggesting the other player has more right to your seat and you should give it up. I see it happen time and time again.

In circumstances like live play at a limited venue where a new player arrived not knowing the rules for participation and is at risk of being sent away and possible never coming back, maybe it would be "fair" to ask an experienced player to give up their seat for the betterment of the community. However, in an online situation with a week's lead time, there is no reason to ask anyone to give up their seat. It would be an extremely rare occurrence not to ask for a GM to run a table for the new player and get no response. In fact, you will usually have to beat the GMs away with a stick you'll get so many responses. We need to stop pretending that everyone else must cater to the new player under some misguided idea that they are such a brittle thing.

[Ed Reppert]

If folks are "presenting" a request that way, they're not simply asking.

[Barkul]

TLDR: asking a person with a disability to leave a table may be viewed as discriminatory and can be solved with some work by the GM and player.

Longer version: The GM is in a position of power at the table. Asking a person with a disability to forfeit their seat, even if unintentional, is an act of discrimination. The power relationship is already uneven, and when you place it in the context of disability, it becomes doubly so. An ask isn't an ask if the relationship isn't on even grounds to begin with.

The GM may be in an unfamiliar or even unknowing ground, which may make them uncomfortable. But that's a good time to check the privilege at the door and do some personal growth. Learn how to be a more inclusive GM. Life is full of times we're uncomfortable and don't know how to approach a situation. However, asking a player to leave the table is ending the situation without resolving it. Worse, it can leave someone hurt and angry at how they were treated when some simple work by both sides might have let to a more rewarding experience for all.

[Ediwir]

mrspaghetti wrote:

Temperans wrote:

macros are great to learn

I'm pretty new to roll20, can you give me an example of a macro that is handy which is not already covered by the character sheet?

This is a brief guide to how to macro on roll20 for basic stuff. It gives two examples - macros the GM can use for secret checks.

Right now I’m doing some macros on Foundry and actually trying to automate mutagens / spells / stances. Like say an Enlarge macro that automatically resizes your token and adds damage to all your future attacks. Still keeping basic, but what ‘basic’ allows is very much dependant on the VTT you use.

[Ed Reppert]

Barkul wrote:

TLDR: asking a person with a disability to leave a table may be viewed as discriminatory and can be solved with some work by the GM and player.

Who was talking about that? And if we were talking about that, it would be discriminatory only if the person was asked to leave the table because of his disability. That's not, as I read ryokoryu's OP, what happened to him.

[Barkul]

Ed Reppert wrote:

Barkul wrote:

TLDR: asking a person with a disability to leave a table may be viewed as discriminatory and can be solved with some work by the GM and player.

Who was talking about that? And if we were talking about that, it would be discriminatory only if the person was asked to leave the table because of his disability. That's not, as I read ryokoryu's OP, what happened to him.

OP: "Today I was informed by the GM of a "Fall of the Plaguestone tutorial" exact game name that he was kicking me out because I didn't have my character pre-rolled and ready and someone who knows the game had one ready to go so I am out and the experienced player takes my spot in the tutorial."

One definition of discrimination is as a result of knowingly making a person feel unwelcome due to race, LGBTQ status, disability, etc. A second form is a little bit like systemic racism, it isn't necessarily due to the aversion but to the totality of circumstances. The player wasn't prepared as the GM would've liked and for a tutorial, he kicked out the player. There was some difficulty expressed on the player's part. The difficulty expressed was partly in relation to their disability, unless I'm somehow mistaking that. Consequently, they *may* feel it's discrimination, or they may not. I'm bringing up the possibility that it might come off that way and we're wiser to at least think about it.

[CrystalSeas]

OP wrote:

: "Today I was informed by the GM of a "Fall of the Plaguestone tutorial" exact game name that he was kicking me out because I didn't have my character pre-rolled and ready and someone who knows the game had one ready to go so I am out and the experienced player takes my spot in the tutorial."

A player who needs help putting together their character sheet for an online game was told they were being replaced by someone who didn't need help.

At one end of the scale, that's rude and unwelcoming and the other, it's discrimination.

Overall, it doesn't matter whether the GM was discriminating against someone because of a disability or not. The GM created an unwelcoming environment and removed someone after they'd already been told they could play, after advertising the game as a "tutorial".

ANY new player who is treated that way has a legitimate grievance.

[MaxAstro]

Tarondor wrote:

Last thought: You don’t need Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds or Foundry. I run my regular game on Discord and use Google Slides for the maps. I strongly prefer the simplicity to all the tech that just gets in the way of the story.

I definitely agree that you don't need a VTT. However, they can be incredibly helpful. I'm really glad I switched to using Fantasy Grounds for 2e, for exactly the opposite reason you suggest - never having to stop game while a player recalculates their attack bonus means more time for story.