Barkul's page

Barkul wrote:

TLDR: asking a person with a disability to leave a table may be viewed as discriminatory and can be solved with some work by the GM and player.

Who was talking about that? And if we were talking about that, it would be discriminatory only if the person was asked to leave the table because of his disability. That's not, as I read ryokoryu's OP, what happened to him.

OP: "Today I was informed by the GM of a "Fall of the Plaguestone tutorial" exact game name that he was kicking me out because I didn't have my character pre-rolled and ready and someone who knows the game had one ready to go so I am out and the experienced player takes my spot in the tutorial."

One definition of discrimination is as a result of knowingly making a person feel unwelcome due to race, LGBTQ status, disability, etc. A second form is a little bit like systemic racism, it isn't necessarily due to the aversion but to the totality of circumstances. The player wasn't prepared as the GM would've liked and for a tutorial, he kicked out the player. There was some difficulty expressed on the player's part. The difficulty expressed was partly in relation to their disability, unless I'm somehow mistaking that. Consequently, they *may* feel it's discrimination, or they may not. I'm bringing up the possibility that it might come off that way and we're wiser to at least think about it.

TLDR: asking a person with a disability to leave a table may be viewed as discriminatory and can be solved with some work by the GM and player.

Longer version: The GM is in a position of power at the table. Asking a person with a disability to forfeit their seat, even if unintentional, is an act of discrimination. The power relationship is already uneven, and when you place it in the context of disability, it becomes doubly so. An ask isn't an ask if the relationship isn't on even grounds to begin with.

The GM may be in an unfamiliar or even unknowing ground, which may make them uncomfortable. But that's a good time to check the privilege at the door and do some personal growth. Learn how to be a more inclusive GM. Life is full of times we're uncomfortable and don't know how to approach a situation. However, asking a player to leave the table is ending the situation without resolving it. Worse, it can leave someone hurt and angry at how they were treated when some simple work by both sides might have let to a more rewarding experience for all.

Please forgive any mistakes, while I have played TTRPGs for years, this is my first go at Pathfinder. I used Pathbuilder to build my character. I tend to roleplay for story, and while I certainly don't want to nerf my character, I don't look to inherently min/max. I welcome any and all feedback, should you be so inclined. Thanks in advance.

Concept: Dwarven Heavy Cavalry, also FIRE (Field Improvised, Reverse Engineered) field medic and field veterinarian
Class: Champion - Liberator
Archetype: Cavalier (I think...)
Ancestry: Anvil Dwarf
God of Choice: Trudd (Might Domain, Warhammer for Weapon)

Str: 18/+$
Dex: 12/+1
Con: 16/+3
Int: 10/-
Wis: 14/+2
Cha: 8/-1

Feats (Starting): Battle Medicine, Raise Shield, Athletic Rush, Lay On Hands, Domain Initiate (Might - Azata)

Possible Future Feats (Champion): Unimpeded Step, Fiendsbane, Steed Ally, Liberating Stride, Divine Reflexes, Celestial Form, Celestial Mount

Feats from Cavalier Dedication: Impressive Mount (and all other Mount Improvements), Mounted Shield, Trampling Charge, Specialized Mount.

Starting Skills from Ancestry and Class: Crafting, Dwarven Lore, Warfare Lore, Religion

Other skills from Build: Athletics, Crafting, Medicine, Nature, Occultism (Will explain below), Society, Survival.

Occultism and Society are important not necessarily for the character, but because of where he's born: Taggun Hold in Cheliax. Some years earlier, Taggun Hold was attacked, and as a young field medic, he found the ability to heal in addition to his family's natural love for forge work. Upon seeing how Cheliax, Goblinoids, and Duergar took slaves, he became dedicated to the cause of Freedom and Nobility, and sees the Steed as his path to not only his own freedom, but to ending slavery. He isn't as clannish or hidebound as most dwarves, and he lacks for any particular wit or charm. But he's seen war, pain, slavery and he is determined to fight it.

He's thinking of joining the Steel Falcons, if he can find his way out of Cheliax.

Pardon the trivial question, and I'll delete if this was accidentally posted twice.

But for thematics, my character is interested in having a ram as a companion. He's a dwarf from the mountains, and rams fit his nature. So... Why can goats climb and not rams? Makes no sense. Or did I miss something?

I read this thread with a high degree of interest, as I have a champion with the battle medicine feat due to background. It's a thematic fit.

After watching the back and forth, I do think RAW is, as many people say, handwaving the "equipment use by hand" logic. The following is not to change anyone's mind, but to be informative, so you can rule or play the way you feel is best for your table.

I asked my dad, who trained as a combat medic with the US Army in the 1960s, what he learned. He didn't get deployed to Vietnam, but he did do a lot of work stateside. So, here's some takeaway.

A battlefield medic's first job is to assess the safety situation, ensure personal safety (if the medic is dead, so is the rifleman), keep weapon available, then diagnose, then stabilize the person enough to get them to a MASH unit. Obviously, not all of this may apply, especially with healing magic.

Things you can do without hands: assess situation and make an initial diagnosis.

Things you can do with one hand, in his view: staunch bleeding through pressure and cloth, feel for pulse, grab more first aid kit, feel for injury.

Things you need two hands for: set bones, make a tourniquet or similar advanced bandage, perform a carry.

So, let's assume that in the moment, the situation is already assessed, and it's now a question of what you consider healing to be. To me, being trained as a battlefield medic, in any fantasy setting, is not to recreate real life, but rather to create the basis for a character's application of their skillset that they already have. A battlefield medic can do a lot of the above actions extremely quickly because they're trained to do so. In my view, the handwaving of the "use of hands" is representative of the training the character has, not the actual use of hands. Of course a character would really need hands to do most of the actions, but I don't think that's really what Paizo is attempting to relate in not specifically mentioning use of hands. It's a little bit like doing something very skillfully because you have been doing it for years versus a relative novice doing so. The same actions require less *time*, not less hands, but from a game perspective, Paizo seems to be saying, RAW, your training lets you do this without the hands because that's how we're showing action economy for trained people.

I'm not taking sides here, I hope everyone has fun and roleplays at a table that suits them. I thought the perspective from someone who did that before might be germane information for us all. It is an interesting discussion, and I got a nice hour long conversation with my dad, who's 82. :)

My best wishes for health to all of you.

I've worked with the disability community for almost 30 years in a volunteer or professional capacity. While I'm neuroatypical, I do not have a visual disability and I do not speak for that community. I do think the OP had a good point about privilege within the role playing community. I think the majority of people don't intend to be dismissive, but having not experienced it themselves, just might be unaware of the challenges. I also think the OP just hit some really jerky GMs.

So, there's two things I see as possible solutions. Coding for people with visual disabilities can be a challenge, so I asked around and here's a link to some coding insights from a person with similar frustrations: https://www.perkinselearning.org/technology/blog/accessible-coding

As to the table itself, any decent GM should welcome diverse participation. You may want to communicate privately and see if their pace or GM style matches your play style and are willing to work with you. Ideally, every GM should be able to, but we all know that's not always the case.

For the rest of us, self included, here are some links on inclusive gaming. This seems like a good time to explore the issue:

https://www.masterthedungeon.com/inclusive-dd/

And this is a look from the criticism side, which offers insights as to how 5e failed a few times:
http://analoggamestudies.org/2018/03/blinded-by-the-roll-the-critical-fail- of-disability-in-dd/

Ultimately, table quality determines a person's enjoyment of any game, including PF and other TTRPGs. A GM should work to make their table inclusive door all players. In my 5e table, we have one Latina, two people with non binary gender expression, one of whom is neuroatypical, another neuroatypical male whom is white, and two white guys including the DM. There are a few others who are not always guaranteed to participate. But the table has felt welcome each time, and I hope OP finds one who is willing to work with them. I wish you all health and happy role playing!