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It was also asked in the Q and A if the book would have any "magic systems to address Vancian Casting" and the answer was a cryptic yes, I'm really wondering what that'll be, variant rule casting systems are a possibility, but so is having a set of class archetypes that implement neo-vancian at the cost of other class features.
Its hard to say
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More cantrips please! Cantrips have felt a little samey since release, I feel like I always see the same 10 or so regardless of the spell lists people are playing. I would love to see more variety on that front (new options for transmutation and conjuration wizards in particular would be welcome).
More cantrips please! Cantrips have felt a little samey since release, I feel like I always see the same 10 or so regardless of the spell lists people are playing. I would love to see more variety on that front (new options for transmutation and conjuration wizards in particular would be welcome).
I would certainly enjoy seeing more cantrips as well, although that will primarily benefit Wizards and other prepared casters over sorcerers and spontaneous casters since it widens their general usage via daily selection, while sorcerers and the like are primarily limited to their original choices.
I'd sort of like to see some uncommon cantrips that are by 'default' locked to a particular faith, region or ancestry choice (but not costing a feat) which others can pick up by encountering it. Creating a bit more variance, without it being hard variance generally requiring feat to access it.
So something like [Uncommmon]
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Access: Having ancestry X; or encountering someone who has it that teaches it to you, or encountering a scroll with it.
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Actually, I sort of like the idea for not just cantrips, but other spells as well, but cantrips would certainly be a good starting spot to help spread some variance.
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I really hope there's an entire non spell slot based magic system. I really don't like the spell slot based system currently in use, the only fantasy it describes well is D&D based fantasy.
I think a metamagic archetype would be fun. Also more metamagic please.
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I want wizard feats for each school of magic (at least 2 for each, and not just focus spells).
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What I really want out of the book is more ways for casters to take advantage of the 2E action economy.
It's been said a lot of times before, but martials generally became super dynamic with the action change, whereas casters kinda didn't change much due to most spells being 2 actions.
I'd like to see:
1) More 1 action spells
2) More reaction spells
3) More variable action spells
4) Some way to become quicken for the Cast A Spell activity
5) Meaningful theme specialisation options for classes like the Wizard and Witch, so that your School and Patron theme feel really impactful and set you apart from different versions of the same class.
6) Some ways to play with or interact with the heightening system.
7) Add more specific familiars and familiar abilities, along with maybe some Animal Companion benefits for casters
8) I'd love see something like Specific forms for Druids and general wildshaping. Less versatile, more niche, but very specialised.
9) Utility forms for wildshape, not just battleforms
10) Some attention given to supporting the internal "themes" of certain caster classes and how to help define them play style more.
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Going off of what Old Man Robot said, some new metamagics that are action economy boosters and other fun ways to mess with spells. Stuff like, when you summon a creature, teleport to a space within 5 feet of it. When you cast a cone or line spell, get blasted backwards by the force of it as an escape tool. When you miss with an attack spell, have it keep going in a straight line to the next creature it can hit.
3 and 5 from the list above especially. Seems like the book for number 3
I don't 100% understand what is meant by number 4...
A boost to the divine spell list would be nice. Then again, I haven't gone all the way through the Advanced Player's Guide to see if that's already been done.
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I don't 100% understand what is meant by number 4...
The quickened condition
You gain 1 additional action at the start of your turn each round. Many effects that make you quickened specify the types of actions you can use with this additional action. If you become quickened from multiple sources, you can use the extra action you’ve been granted for any single action allowed by any of the effects that made you quickened. Because quickened has its effect at the start of your turn, you don’t immediately gain actions if you become quickened during your turn.
As in some way to gain an additional action which can only be used to offload part of the actions required to cast a spell.
We already have Quickening for strikes, strides, skill checks, item fetching, etc. It would be nice to see a version as well which allows casters to offset part of their cast time requirements while still having access to more than 1 generic action.
Given that Quickened Casting is a 10th level feat, once a day, and two spell levels below max, I'm not expecting to see anything in the way of a Spam Spell option.
Random Question. Where and when was this book announced? I guess it flew over my head.
Random Question. Where and when was this book announced? I guess it flew over my head.
Gencon online during a panel.
Random Question. Where and when was this book announced? I guess it flew over my head.Gencon online during a panel.
Interesting. Can I see this panel only on the GenCon website or is it on Paizo’s twitch? Was there anything else interesting announced at the panel?
Interesting. Can I see this panel only on the GenCon website or is it on Paizo’s twitch? Was there anything else interesting announced at the panel?Random Question. Where and when was this book announced? I guess it flew over my head.Gencon online during a panel.
You can find the VOD on Paizo's Twitch and YouTube channel.
Everything announced so far for the book is in KaiBlob1's post up top.
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Given that Quickened Casting is a 10th level feat, once a day, and two spell levels below max, I'm not expecting to see anything in the way of a Spam Spell option.
And it sucks!
This thread also includes our hopes. That feat sucks, I hope they make a better version of it in some sense.
Plus they’ve already let the genie out of the bottle with Oracles and 1 action cantrips. More of that please!
Given that Quickened Casting is a 10th level feat, once a day, and two spell levels below max, I'm not expecting to see anything in the way of a Spam Spell option.
I think this is a big one and bears repeating. When I saw that particular feat I understood the full gravity of the parameters being put on magic. I don't see any future content drastically changing the amount a caster can accomplish in one turn (multiple times a day). It does kind of make me miss the abilities in 5e that are a number of times a day equal to your modifier. Quickening 4-6 times a day sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
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My wishlist is "a way for a witch to get more hex cantrips." Bards have 9 different feats that grant composition cantrips, so we could give witches a couple.
Mostly I want Magus. ofcoure more options for current caster.. and maybe one more magic class. (not to mention spells archtypes feats magic realted skill feats etc.)
I don't 100% understand what is meant by number 4...The quickened condition
You gain 1 additional action at the start of your turn each round. Many effects that make you quickened specify the types of actions you can use with this additional action. If you become quickened from multiple sources, you can use the extra action you’ve been granted for any single action allowed by any of the effects that made you quickened. Because quickened has its effect at the start of your turn, you don’t immediately gain actions if you become quickened during your turn.As in some way to gain an additional action which can only be used to offload part of the actions required to cast a spell.
We already have Quickening for strikes, strides, skill checks, item fetching, etc. It would be nice to see a version as well which allows casters to offset part of their cast time requirements while still having access to more than 1 generic action.
We do have Effortless Concentration, which could have just as easily been worded "You are permanently quickened. You can only use this action to Sustain a Spell." It seems to be the caster equivalent of those other feats, although it's not universally useful for any class other than Witches.
I can't see anything other than what we have reducing the time it takes to cast a spell, and I'm glad about that, but I would like to see feats that let you do other things while casting spells.
Maguses (magi?) will choose a fighting-style subclass.Was it confirmed that Magus is Arcane-only, then?
Really hope they have Occult as a choice too where they could specialise in Debuff Witch type spells instead of the
Arcane elemental spells
There are only a few specific things I feel I "need" from this book.
1st and most important to me is more Druid orders. I especially want some biome/environment druids like Snow, Desert, and Sea. I also want some elemental Druids. It is one of my favorite classes of all time but I'm not really feeling that I can hit all the character types I want to just yet.
Second is the Bigby's Hand spell. I want to crush my enemies like an empty coke can.
Aside from other stuff, I don't have any specific needs. More options are always cool. I do hope for two-handed Magus support. I want to cast spells through a really big sword. Some Bloodrager totems might be nice, too.
Mostly I want Magus. ofcoure more options for current caster.. and maybe one more magic class. (not to mention spells archtypes feats magic realted skill feats etc.)Magus is confirmed, and summoner is another confirmed magic class. There's pretty much no chance of any more classes being in this book
Cool 2 is what I wanted. I am satisfied. Thank you.
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We do have Effortless Concentration, which could have just as easily been worded "You are permanently quickened. You can only use this action to Sustain a Spell." It seems to be the caster equivalent of those other feats, although it's not universally useful for any class other than Witches.
I can't see anything other than what we have reducing the time it takes to cast a spell, and I'm glad about that, but I would like to see feats that let you do other things while casting spells.
Mechanically Effortless Concentration and Quickened are very different, and while EC might be functionally equivalent to Quickened in certain situations, they're distinct enough not to overlap. For example, a 3 action cast and a stride can't be replicated by EC.
Plus, EC is a 16th level that just works forever. Some limited use or condition-dependent feats which allow short-term Quickening seems ripe for design space.
A rider feat where if you critically succeed on a spell you become Spell Quickened on your next turn or something like that would be cool.
I'm not opposed to feats either that have rider effects as well, I think it would be really cool, I just think that allowing a form of Spell Quickening would add more interaction between casters and the action system.
Where is this announced, that I can see it?
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I just want the Magus to not suck, I don't want another Alchemist on our hands.
After that, I'd like spells to have a way to play with action economy too, then more cantrips, then more basic skill actions (related to magic) or common rituals with short cast times that are skill based (like occult skill unlocks but not Feat locked or bad).
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I just want the Magus to not suck, I don't want another Alchemist on our hands.
My prediction is that it won't have the restrictions of alchemist but that a number of people waiting for it won't be happy at how much the casting elements have been restricted to make room for the martial elements.
Hearing Jason talk about hundreds of spells in the FAQ has me hopeful though, the spell section of the APG is the most disappointing element of that book for me. Followed by the relatively small magical item section.
Even with the APG the game is lacking full thematic paths for spellcasters which has people who want to monotheme feeling like they are taking filler spells frequently. We will see what happens next.
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I'm curious how they'll design the Magus.
Maybe we'll get:
* Master Weapon prof / Master Spellcasting?
* Expert weap / Legend casting with some sort of special action to add +hit, like the investigator
* Master Weap / Expert casting, with Spellstrike using the weapon success for the spell like the Eldritch Archer.
* Something weird like a battle stance/casting stance that locks one out of the other.
I'm mostly interested in how they will keep the magus feats interesting.
The discuss the design theory of the magus a little bit in the gen con “ask the developers panel.” At one point Logan Makes it clear that the magus is very much about casting spells through weapon strikes and that the class groupings are based first around combat style. I think eldritch archer is going to be a good starting place for what the magus will be like, just with spell casting starting at level 1
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I really want to see a Hexcrafter & Mindblade Magus choices
Hexcrafter
1) Access to Witch Hex cantrips
2) Access to Occult Magic
3) Ability to attack with Witch/Changeling claws as main weapon
Mindblade
1) Access to summoning the Psychic Weapon
2) Psychic Magic
1. A solid and balanced spellcasting point system.
2. Damaging spells for every tradition and damage type.
Quite interested in these more esoteric magic systems, the lay lines and true names and stuff. Don't get me wrong, casting Fireball is great and all, but I definitely want some deeper magic stuff for my Witches and Fae-touched. Stuff that lets you reach deep into the fabric of the world and touch things no mortal was meant to touch.
I'm super excited for the Magus. It's my OTHER favorite class besides the Witch, so we'll officially have everything I've ever wanted with PF2.
Also, while I am quite happy with the final PF2 Witch, the unfortunate side effect of removing the extra spells known every level per patron type is that the Baba Yaga patron feels very skimpy on the Ice magic. Sure, she get's Chilling Spray and Ice Wall and the Lesson of the Ice Queen, but as far as I can tell that's it. I would like at least AN Ice Spell of every level as an option.
As far as the context about getting extra actions via spellcasting, I think there is absolutely room in the game for feats which allow you to be more dynamic with what you can do in a turn. Just so long as the general rule of "You can't cast more than 1 of MOST spells per round (specifically the 2-action ones) without being quickened from some other source" is adhered to.
I've seen people suggesting feats like "Mobile Casting" which allows you to move up to your speed when you cast a spell. Probably with the Flourish trait to avoid spamming 1-action spells and basically getting 6 actions in a turn. You'd have to decide whether the spell is triggered at the beginning or end of the movement, and then maybe you could have a higher level version of the feat that could allow you to trigger the spell at any point in the movement.
Both classes will be able to cast spells up to 9th level. Summoners will be able to determine their spellcasting tradition through what type of eidolon they choose. Maguses (magi?) will choose a fighting-style subclass.
im really not pleased about this bit, unless summoners get scraps for spells per day i just dont see how this doesnt eat way too much of their power budget to make the eidalon the star of the show
Both classes will be able to cast spells up to 9th level. Summoners will be able to determine their spellcasting tradition through what type of eidolon they choose. Maguses (magi?) will choose a fighting-style subclass.im really not pleased about this bit, unless summoners get scraps for spells per day i just dont see how this doesnt eat way too much of their power budget to make the eidalon the star of the show
From what it sounds like they'll have two spells per level.
multiple spell lists really eats a lot of power because "versatility". As proof, the Witch and not getting more hexes.
Can you please elaborate on what you mean here? Are you saying that classes are losing options in exchange for the ability to select magic tradition? So is the implication that if witch was occult only it would have more hexes ?
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I would like variants of the old level 2 “animal’s x”’ spells - obviously not with the stat boosts
But spells that grants temporary bonuses to rolls with a certain skill can be useful . Such as eagles splendour helping demoralise and feint
I guess the balance point would have to be with the mutagens that have downsides. But I am pretty sure there are already some spells that roughly mirror alchemical items but at increased power
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multiple spell lists really eats a lot of power because "versatility". As proof, the Witch and not getting more hexes.
I don't think it really eats up all that much power. Sorcerers seem to be doing fine, after all. Picking a tradition provides versatility in character creation, not in play.
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Yeahhhh witches got less hex options and spells thanks to people demanding hex cantrips and what I would guess is developers being a bit shy of repeating the bard.
And while I have heard people go on about how they don't value the familiar, it too is another feature that witches have that is quite useful now that it comes back each day with zero penalty.