|
So from the start of 2nd ed, I've had a character concept of a Goblin who is desperately trying to make Goblin Weapons (Dogslicers and Horsechoppers) mainstream. The idea is that she would be a craftsman with the Goblin Weapon Familiarity racial feat, and she'd spend a lot of her RPing time trying to sell her wares. Thing is, looking at the rules further . . . I can't do that in society play, right? I'd need to get the 'formulas' for making Goblin Weapons . . . even if I AM a goblin with the weapon familiarity feat, and I haven't come across any boons or scenarios or quests or whatever that give me the option to learn.
I have found the reverse-engineering rules, but I don't know if those are PFS legal.
I mean, I'm not trying to break the system here or anything, I just want to have fun with a silly (sub-par) character concept because objectively (rules wise) there are better weapons out there, but no, I guess I can't do that. Am I overlooking something?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sure, it's going to be the same cite as to why say Humans or longswords or taking the stride action are legal.
Go down to Pathfinder Core Rulebook and expand.
Standard
All options are of standard availability unless specifically noted otherwise
Reverse Engineering is not mentioned, therefore it's of standard availability. It's not listed as an uncommon or rare option, therefore it's common and freely accessible.
|
|
Sure, it's going to be the same cite as to why say Humans or longswords or taking the stride action are legal.
Go down to Pathfinder Core Rulebook and expand.
Standard
All options are of standard availability unless specifically noted otherwise
Reverse Engineering is not mentioned, therefore it's of standard availability. It's not listed as an uncommon or rare option, therefore it's common and freely accessible.
Thanks. I mean, It's not as good as being able to buy it or start with it, but I guess if I get enough good rolls I can eventually know the recipies/plans/whatever. Thanks again.
So you're saying if you obtain access to an uncommon item you also obtain access to its formula? Because you'd need that to acquire and/or use the formula in whatever way, right?
Does it also work the other way around, i.e. if you have a chronicle giving you access to the (uncommon) formula for an uncommon item, does that give you access to the item itself?
Seems like it might (or even should), but the formula and the item are two different things and I don't think I've seen it stated anywhere that access to one uncommon item grants access to another (albeit very much related) uncommon item.
However, if access to the item grants access to the formula (and vice versa), it should follow that you could then just buy it, like any other uncommon item that you have access to, right?!
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You can say that's what you're doing for your Craft roll to Earn Income during downtime.
I feel like this needs to be brought back to the original poster's attention.
If your concept is to be a goblin crafting goblin weapons and selling them, then you don't need any formulas. You make your earned income roll using Craft and say you're doing whatever you like to make the money.
I'm not seeing the value--in regards to character narrative or income production--in buying/reverse engineering a formula, crafting an item, and selling it to the market at half price over and over again.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Remember there's also no wealth transfer between PCs. So even if you have the formula and are crafting the actual items, while you could loan them to PCs for the duration of the missing, you can't give them to them permanently. Plus they likely won't have proficiency, etc.
I'd say using regular craft to earn income, and then buy an extra slicer/chopper that you loan out to interested party members can probably fit your concept pretty well and works completely within rules that no GM should argue about.
|
So you're saying if you obtain access to an uncommon item you also obtain access to its formula? Because you'd need that to acquire and/or use the formula in whatever way, right?
Does it also work the other way around, i.e. if you have a chronicle giving you access to the (uncommon) formula for an uncommon item, does that give you access to the item itself?
Seems like it might (or even should), but the formula and the item are two different things and I don't think I've seen it stated anywhere that access to one uncommon item grants access to another (albeit very much related) uncommon item.
However, if access to the item grants access to the formula (and vice versa), it should follow that you could then just buy it, like any other uncommon item that you have access to, right?!
I have seen one chronicle where both the item and the formula for the item are listed. So I think the answer is no, if you have the formula you don't also gain access to the item.
This is why my alchemist bought an uncommon alchemical item made available from a chronicle so he could reverse engineer it and add the formula to his book. Now he can make that item at will!
But nowhere in reverse engineering does it say that the process gives you access (the rules-term, obviously, not physical access) to the formula. And since it's an uncommon formula, you'd still need access to use it (and even to write it into your formula book).
I've seen a chronicle that lists access to uncommon formulas, but not to the items themselves. When you craft using these formulas you get... nothing?! Because you cannot have an item that you don't have access to?! Seems odd.
Logically, it makes sense that access to the item and access to its formula should go together. Alternatively, some form of conditional access (you gain access to the formula when you have access to the item only if you reverse engineer it; you gain access to the item when you have access to the formula only if you craft it) would be conceivable. IMHO likely the best way to handle this, but I don't see that supported in the current rules anywhere. Certainly not RAW.
Edit: since this is highly unlikely to be an issue outside of PFS, maybe that kind of conditional access is something PFS should add to their guide as an option to obtain access? You obtain access to the item after you have successfully crafted it once from a formula you have access to; vice versa you obtain access to a formula once you have successfully reverse engineered it from an item you have access to. GM notes it on your chronicle where you successfully completed the process. Should be easy to do.
|
|
You can say that's what you're doing for your Craft roll to Earn Income during downtime.I feel like this needs to be brought back to the original poster's attention.
If your concept is to be a goblin crafting goblin weapons and selling them, then you don't need any formulas. You make your earned income roll using Craft and say you're doing whatever you like to make the money.
I'm not seeing the value--in regards to character narrative or income production--in buying/reverse engineering a formula, crafting an item, and selling it to the market at half price over and over again.
You are right, I could just use crafting and SAY I'm crafting goblin dogslicers even though I don't have the formula, but that's not true to the character. So yeah, I'm going to reverse engineer them. Just for character completeness/roleplaying sake. Plus, once I have the formula and a few levels, I could build some cold iron/alchemical silver dogslicers for my character. Seems like something she'd do.
|
|
You are right, I could just use crafting and SAY I'm crafting goblin dogslicers even though I don't have the formula, but that's not true to the character. So yeah, I'm going to reverse engineer them. Just for character completeness/roleplaying sake. Plus, once I have the formula and a few levels, I could build some cold iron/alchemical silver dogslicers for my character. Seems like something she'd do.Just here to say that it might be cool if you had an extra dogslicer or two and tried to offer them to people each scenario. Maybe make offhand comments about how attacks would have been so much effective with a dogslicer. Seems memorable.
My character has 2 dogslicers in her starting equipment. She for sure is going to do that. Only reason I don't have two horsechoppers is because then I'd be over my bulk limit.
I also have a Bo staff (that I say is the haft of a horseschopper I'm working on) in case I give away both dogslicers.