Arcane bonded Item and multiclassing?

[WabbitHuntr]

bonded item class feature:

Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be held in one hand. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell’s level.]/b] If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.

A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard’s level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard’s opposition schools (see arcane school below).

[b]A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required Item Creation Feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger (see Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat). If the bonded object is a wand, it loses its wand abilities when its last charge is consumed, but it is not destroyed and it retains all of its bonded object properties and can be used to craft a new wand. The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object’s owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.

If a bonded object is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the wizard prepares his spells. If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.

If a 10th Lvl bard dipped 1 lvl into Wizard to gain a bonded item would he be able to enchant that item through the bonded object class feature?

And if the character was to cast a Bard spell w/o the bonded item would he have to roll the concentration check to cast the Bard spell?

[Azothath]

WabbitHuntr wrote:

** spoiler omitted {summerized}

Bard 10 gains Wiz 1 with bond obj option, enchant bond obj?
Cast Bard spell w/o bond obj suffer conc check?

There are a couple of points in there.

Yes, the character can take the class becomming 11th level.
Yes, he gets a free bonded object of the type chosen of plain material but of MW quality but resale value of $0.
Yes he can enchant it AS a first level wizard for half cost. Your GM may allow you to enchant at 10(as a Bard) or 11th level (at half, but the PC CAN at full cost as that's a regular process). To bolster that line of reasoning the PC should have taken the crafting feat earlier in his career.
Bard castings from the PCs Bard spell slots do not suffer the Wizard's issues as the classes are effectively self contained. Nor do they gain benefits from the Wiz class. Keep the spell lists/slots separate as some spells on the wiz list are on the bard list, however, the PC does not automatically know the wiz version and has to learn and scribe it as usual.

Comments.
Personally this isn't a great way to go as Bard already casts arcane spells. It DOES open up a lot of free usage for magic items(wands) making UMD less useful. I'd suggest Cleric(healing and buffs), Rogue, Paladin or Fighter unless you want a Diviner's go in the suprise round class feature.

[WabbitHuntr]

I should have framed my question better.

If my 10 lvl bard dipped 1lvl of wizard to gain the bonded item would be be able to enchant that item himself without taking the Craft weapon feat using his 10th bard spellcasting?

"A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required Item Creation Feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat."
The last sentence does not state if he meets the level prerequisites with his wizard levels simply that he must qualify for the feat

The bard10/wizard1 meets the level requirements for the craft item feat as a bard

Another way of framing the question would be does taking 1 level of wizard give the character a limited version of the craft feats that can ONLY be used on the bonded object?

[Lelomenia]

I can imagine that some would say you only count as 1st, but RAW it seems pretty clear that you qualify for all the craft feats you qualify for.

[Melkiador]

It’s understood that when a class ability mentions being a level, it means a level in that class, otherwise it would say character level. This is an odd situation though, since it’s referencing the limit of a feat that is based on caster level. This is yet another dealer’s choice question, where it works whichever way the GM thinks it should work.

[Dragonchess Player]

If the bard 10/wizard 1 meets the (caster) level requirements for an item creation feat appropriate to the bonded object, then they can add/improve magical abilities to that specific item (only) without needing the item creation feat(s). This is not unbalanced. The character lost a level in their primary class and can't add/improve any other item to "save" a feat.

Amulet - Craft Wondrous Item, takes up the neck slot
Ring - Forge Ring, takes up one ring slot
Staff - Craft Magic Arms (and Armor); also, Craft Staff at CL 11
Wand - Craft Wand
Weapon - Craft Magic Arms (and Armor)

Note, the GM may want to prohibit "transferring" a bonded object to another character by ruling that the item loses any magical abilities if the bard 10/wizard 1 bonds another item.

[WabbitHuntr]

from a seemingly relevant FAQ

Sorcerer: Do the bonuses granted from Bloodline Arcana apply to all of the spells cast by the sorcerer, or just those cast from the sorcerer's spell list?

The Bloodline Arcana powers apply to all of the spells cast by characters of that bloodline, not just those cast using the sorcerer's spell slots.

General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The General rule portion of this FAQ seems relevant. Meaning that if a character gains a Bonded Item....This would apply to ALL his casting classes.
"If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly."

I'm still doing more research...One would think that this basic question would have been settled in a FAQ long ago

[WabbitHuntr]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Note, the GM may want to prohibit "transferring" a bonded object to another character by ruling that the item loses any magical abilities if the bard 10/wizard 1 bonds another item.

Thats not a concern. See below from Arcane Bond description

"The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type."

[Diego Rossi]

Note that the FAQ about the Bloodline Arcana is only relevant because its general rule:
"General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)"

The arcane bond ability doesn't limit the wizard to his wizard levels when enchanting the object, so it can be enchanted using the bard levels.
It says "If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object", so only the spells from the wizard class are affected by the absence of the bond.

Depending on what arcane bond you want to get and how you use your Bard, check the arcane duelist archetype, it gets an arcane bond with a weapon at level 5 and several other nice abilities, but it pays them losing several nice bard abilities.

[vhok]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Note that the FAQ about the Bloodline Arcana is only relevant because its general rule:

"General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)"

The arcane bond ability doesn't limit the wizard to his wizard levels when enchanting the object, so it can be enchanted using the bard levels.
It says "If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object", so only the spells from the wizard class are affected by the absence of the bond.

Depending on what arcane bond you want to get and how you use your Bard, check the arcane duelist archetype, it gets an arcane bond with a weapon at level 5 and several other nice abilities, but it pays them losing several nice bard abilities.

i completely disagree about casting without the bond. all sorcerer bloodlines constantly say sorcerer but the faq says ignore that if it alters spellcasting it affects all classes you have that spellcast. not having your bond affects your spellcasting. thats literally what the faq says

[Diego Rossi]

vhok wrote:

i completely disagree about casting without the bond. all sorcerer bloodlines constantly say sorcerer but the faq says ignore that if it alters spellcasting it affects all classes you have that spellcast. not having your bond affects your spellcasting. thats literally what the faq says

CRB wrote:

Aberrant
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell of the polymorph subschool, increase the duration of the spell by 50% (minimum 1 round). This bonus does not stack with the increase granted by the Extend Spell feat.

Abyssal
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell of the summoning subschool, the creatures summoned gain DR/good equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1). This does not stack with any DR the creature might have.

Notice how it differentiate you from your sorcerer for the Abyssal bloodline.

CRB wrote:

Arcane
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell’s DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.

I can continue, but the trend is clear.

Then there is the FAQ text:

FAQ wrote:

General rule: If a class ability modifies your spellcasting, it applies to your spells from all classes, not just spells from the class that grants the ability. (The exception is if the class ability specifically says it only applies to spells from that class.)

and the text of the Arcane bond:

CRB wrote:

If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell

It says explicitly that the limit is applied only to the wizard class, and the FAQ says explicitly that if the ability says that it is applied to only a specific class it is an exception to the general rule.

So, unless you can show a rule that says something different, you are wrong.

[Azothath]

commentary (as it's about the practicality of what you're doing rather than the rules)
If you just want to upgrade an item (add a magical property to it) talk to your GM as it is a relatively easy process. You'll pay full cost for it but avoid multiclassing, not have to pick up a feat, and not have to account for the crafting time (assuming it's a home game).

The next easy method is cooperative crafting. Help craft the item and provide the spell you want for the wizard doing the upgrade. GM involvement will be needed as there are fiddly-bits(your cost should be less) that need to be worked out. Note the crafting rule about adding 5 to the crafting DC for requirements not met.

Otherwise it appears you are sacrificing a spell casting level (Bard) to try to save some gold or to do a wizard's job on a one shot item.

[vhok]

ok i gave the wrong example. how about this

If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object

A magus is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. A magus is also proficient with light armor. He can cast magus spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance.

the wizard bond does not say attempt to cast a wizard spell which means when you attempt to cast ANY spell