Magic Officer Scrying action... and how does it work?

[Loreguard]

I understand it works like a science officer’s scan check, in a basic way.

However, a scan check uses sensors that you had to buy for your ship and can be damaged.

For 1.BP you get sensors that give you a minus 2 to checks, and the shortest range increments.

For Scrying, for 1bp you get a +2 on your mysticism checks. Additionally there isn’t any range increments specified for a Scrying action. Does that mean there is no rage penalty? Or does it mean it should be treated as using short range increments because it isn’t mentioned. Or does it have no range increments, but a limited range?

It doesn’t say so, so I guess it probably does not, but does this Scrying cost a spell slot?

Honestly, it seems that there should be a Scrying station, potentially costing BP. Your good old fashioned crystal ball station to the right of the broom handle rudder seat. Then you can easily justify them being ably to Scrying through space without using a spell.

I definitely like having something that can be used aboard the ship skill wise other than computers. The chief mate is nice in that it offers use of alternate skills, although the fluff makes it look like it should require a high engineering skill. But I like the concept and new options.

[Ixal]

Imo scrying works exactly like scanning with the same modifications because of the sensor quality and range. You just use a different skill for the check.

[Wingblaze]

I feel like you're trying to ask about rules that don't really exist and overly complicate things.

Scrying: COM page 148: This functions as the scan science officer action,
but you attempt a Mysticism check instead of a Computers check.

So they use the exact same rules as the scan action, except for the substitution of the mysticism skill. Sensors apply. Range penalties from the sensors apply. There's no need for a scrying station or anything else.

If you're looking for something more like an in-game answer, remember that in Starfinder magic and technology are heavily blended anyway and the scanning station may already incorporate divination elements to be utilized.

[Loreguard]

Wingblaze wrote:

I feel like you're trying to ask about rules that don't really exist and overly complicate things.

Scrying: COM page 148: This functions as the scan science officer action,
but you attempt a Mysticism check instead of a Computers check.

So they use the exact same rules as the scan action, except for the substitution of the mysticism skill. Sensors apply. Range penalties from the sensors apply. There's no need for a scrying station or anything else.

If you're looking for something more like an in-game answer, remember that in Starfinder magic and technology are heavily blended anyway and the scanning station may already incorporate divination elements to be utilized.

Reasonable conclusion to conclude that your average sensors on a starship may have both magical and technological components allowing someone to operate them with either magic or technological methods. It is an assumption, but I'll grant a reasonable one inline with most of the StarFinder Science Fantasy setting. Thanks, I can kind of occasionally finding myself resetting to a more Science Fiction setting/mindset where the fantasy is far more muted and rare when I'm not careful.

One could of course have exceptions to the above presumption of a sensor station being both technological and magical, and have a ship who's sensors are explicitly only one or the other, and you'd have to have some other form of magical or technological tool or ability to attempt a check with the other ability. But that would be homebrew until there is an example published like that. (save for using core rules only, which would imply the technology/computers option only for your standard ship sensors, being raw)

Any way, your perspective is an ideal perspective for it in my opinion, thanks for helping me see it. :)

[Metaphysician]

My own rule of thumb is to treat it like species adaptation for gear: its free, and so the players usually have access by default, but could be an issue with other peoples' ships. If a given ship doesn't actually have a mage of some type among its officers, and is either shoddy or from a species/company/etc that doesn't really do magic as a focus? It might not have the relevant "modules", because nobody expected to use them and it saves money.

The reverse, in *theory*, could happen, but would be a hell of a lot rarer. Even if you intend to use mystical scrying for all your serious scanning needs, baseline technological sensors would be just too useful for simple things like "docking maneuvers". I could only see it being the case on ships built by either a species that has universal mystic powers, or an organization that is explicitly magic-supremacist.

[Pantshandshake]

I should point out:
Scrying (Engineering Phase)
You employ a substantial form of divination, such as dealing from a digital harrow deck, reading the future by interpreting the splatter of leaking coolant on your ship, or visually scanning the readouts of your starship’s myriad screens to pull deeper and predictive meaning from the lights and sounds around you. This functions as the scan science officer action, but you attempt a Mysticism check instead of a Computers check. For information about the effects of a successful scan action, see page 325 of the Core Rulebook.

There's no magic module, no crystal ball station (though that would be awesome.) Does the ship have sensors? Yes? How about the PC, does it have ranks in mysticism? Also yes? Then congrats, PC, you're the magic officer! Go read some patterns in the baked-in crap in the microwave and tell us how we're gonna die.

[Xenocrat]

The sad part of being the magic officer is you don't get a skill bonus from high quality sensors.

[Loreguard]

But if it is just like the scan action, rules might be that you actually do.

Also, note you don’t have to be able to cast spells, just have mysticism, based on the rules.

Honestly, I like the idea of a magic crystal ball that works in the void of space to see far shops and items. As long as the players can’t yank it off the ship and expect to use it as a planetary scrying device off the ship, it seems reasonable.

Anyway, clarifications would be good on if sensor bonuses and rang increments apply.

[Squiggit]

I don't see why they wouldn't. Scrying says it functions as Scan, except you use Mysticism instead of Computers.

Anything that modifies Scan should modify Scrying by extension.

[Pantshandshake]

Squiggit wrote:

I don't see why they wouldn't. Scrying says it functions as Scan, except you use Mysticism instead of Computers.

Anything that modifies Scan should modify Scrying by extension.

I agree with this. It makes sense.

But.

Xenocrat is right often enough that I'd like to hear his reasoning for the opposing viewpoint.

[Xenocrat]

All the ship stat blocks note sensor bonuses as a specifically Computers bonus, but I see the CRB rules just say it’s a bonus to science officer checks without specifying the obvious the way the ship stats do.

[Pantshandshake]

I'm not sure why the type of bonus would particularly matter?

Also, this excerpt from the sensors entry:
All sensors have a skill modifier that applies to any skill used in conjunction with them.

'Any skill' seems pretty broad.

[Xenocrat]

Pantshandshake wrote:

I'm not sure why the type of bonus would particularly matter?

Also, this excerpt from the sensors entry:
All sensors have a skill modifier that applies to any skill used in conjunction with them.

'Any skill' seems pretty broad.

The sensors entry, which I agree is controlling, would allow it to apply to mysticism checks. But the standard ship blocks, which specify that it's a computer bonus, would not.

I now think that's just an obsolete shorthand and there's not actually any issue.

[Loreguard]

Xenocrat wrote:

Pantshandshake wrote:

I'm not sure why the type of bonus would particularly matter?

Also, this excerpt from the sensors entry:
All sensors have a skill modifier that applies to any skill used in conjunction with them.

'Any skill' seems pretty broad.

The sensors entry, which I agree is controlling, would allow it to apply to mysticism checks. But the standard ship blocks, which specify that it's a computer bonus, would not.

I now think that's just an obsolete shorthand and there's not actually any issue.

Given I've tried to print out some ship block and the +1 to computers checks for sensors "+/-# Computers(Sensors only)" seems really cumbersome and long. I think migrating towards a +/-# Sensors would be much more concise and useful.

Any chance the new ship blocks in Near Space might have changed that in the stat blocks by any random chance? Maybe they might make a change like that in the Starship Operations Manual.

[Osokamata]

So scrying is in the Enginering phase and Scan (Helm Phase). Does this mean you ould have a science officer do a scan in the helm phase followed by the magic officer scry during the engineering phase?

[Arutema]

Osokamata wrote:

So scrying is in the Enginering phase and Scan (Helm Phase). Does this mean you ould have a science officer do a scan in the helm phase followed by the magic officer scry during the engineering phase?

Engineering phase comes before helm phase. I do believe you could scry, then scan if you want more information about the enemy ship than a single check will give. (Or you are facing multiple ships.)