Weapon upgrade rules (Armory)

[Rakki_Bogzdale]

On page 8 of the armory book it states

"If you want to upgrade an existing weapon to be more effective, you can do so by selecting a weapon of the same type and category with a higher level. You then pay the price of the new weapon, minus 10% of the price of the original weapon..."

There seems to be two ways to interpret that.

1) You craft the weapon you selected, so you "upgrade" your handaxe, basic into a switchblade, ultrathin. If this is the case the rule seems useless as you can already salvage 10% of your old item in UPB.

2) You don't craft a new item, you just upgrade the level of your item. You turn your handaxe, basic into a level 8 handaxe, basic (by picking switchblade, ultrathin). If this is the case what weapon do you pick if there are multiple of different values (buzzblade is 9,400. ultrathin is 9,100), can you just always pick the cheapest?

[Dracomicron]

The intent seems to be that you change the weapon to the next higher version of the same weapon. So

Handaxe, Basic price 90 credits

to

Handaxe, Tactical price 1825 credits

for

(1825 - 9) = 1816 credits

Basically the rule of thumb is that you can sell your junky old stuff for 10% of its original value, or use 10% of their value as a foundation for making a similar device.

The Armory rule is basically just dressing up the 10% resale value as something thematic. You COULD just sell your basic handaxe and buy a sonic laser disrupting switchblade or whatever, but some players want the storytelling aspect of upgrading the weapon they've been using since level 1.

[Garretmander]

Rakki_Bogzdale wrote:

On page 8 of the armory book it states

"If you want to upgrade an existing weapon to be more effective, you can do so by selecting a weapon of the same type and category with a higher level. You then pay the price of the new weapon, minus 10% of the price of the original weapon..."

There seems to be two ways to interpret that.

1) You craft the weapon you selected, so you "upgrade" your handaxe, basic into a switchblade, ultrathin. If this is the case the rule seems useless as you can already salvage 10% of your old item in UPB.

2) You don't craft a new item, you just upgrade the level of your item. You turn your handaxe, basic into a level 8 handaxe, basic (by picking switchblade, ultrathin). If this is the case what weapon do you pick if there are multiple of different values (buzzblade is 9,400. ultrathin is 9,100), can you just always pick the cheapest?

My understanding is more that you turn your staccato rifle, drum into a staccato rifle, hammer for a measly discount of 10,700 Cr 0ff the final price of 810,000 Cr (10% of the drum staccato rifle) exactly as though you had sold the original and purchased the new.

[Pantshandshake]

"To upgrade your old weapon to a better version, you simply go to the store and buy a new weapon!"

Ye Gods, I never would have figured this out. Thanks, Starfinder, for having this important rule in print.

[Nyerkh]

Hardly a surprise : crafting doesn't make you money either, by design.
The main benefit of upgrading is mostly that you don't have to buy the grinder to convert your old weapon back into UPBs, I guess ?

But you might not always be able to reach a gunshop so... Still useful, if barely ?

[HammerJack]

Adventuring in the far reaches of the galaxy and not having easy access to retail is a pretty common plot component, in this genre. It's having a good reason to upgrade along a single weapon "type" instead of upgrading to something different and keeping the old weapon as a high-quality backup that's niche.

[Pantshandshake]

Its not even niche.

You could already purchase a higher level version of whatever weapon you're using while selling the old one for 10%.

You could already craft a higher level version of whatever weapon you're using, while using the grinder or a homebrewed solution to get 10% of the worth of the item back.

You could already buy or craft a different kind of higher level weapon, while selling or converting your old one.

You're doing the same thing, regardless of whether this upgrading rule exists or not.

[Dracomicron]

Pantshandshake wrote:

Its not even niche.

You could already purchase a higher level version of whatever weapon you're using while selling the old one for 10%.

You could already craft a higher level version of whatever weapon you're using, while using the grinder or a homebrewed solution to get 10% of the worth of the item back.

You could already buy or craft a different kind of higher level weapon, while selling or converting your old one.

You're doing the same thing, regardless of whether this upgrading rule exists or not.

Like I said before, it's mostly just for flavor and preference (something that Starfinder does take seriously).

The niche comes in when you crash land on a primitive planet and don't want to use the archaic weapons of the locals, so you use your dwindling cache of UPBs and your current weapons to upgrade. Selling your gun and buying a better one isn't really an option when the local market only sells kishaxes and battle bows.

[HammerJack]

Pantshandshake wrote:

You could already craft a higher level version of whatever weapon you're using, while using the grinder or a homebrewed solution to get 10% of the worth of the item back.

While I'm really not trying to paint this rule as though it were some kind of revelation that changed crafting (it is extraordinarily minor), the tense is a bit off. When this rule was written, there was no grinder, and homebrew solutions are just that.

It's basically just rephrasing a specific instance of CRB page 235: "To create an item, you must have UPBs with a total value equal to the price of the item to be created. At the GM’s discretion, you can scavenge similar items for parts, allowing 10% of the scavenged item’s value to count toward the UPBs needed." for the people that seem to be allergic to the phrase "GM's discretion."

[Ascalaphus]

What would happen to the fusions on the old item though?

As a houserule, letting those stay on the upgraded weapon at no cost might be a nice reward for "brand loyalty".

[Pantshandshake]

You can already move fusions around, so if you choose to not do this, or can't do this, then you lose the fusion.

[Ascalaphus]

Sure, if you were buying a new gun you'd have to move the fusion. But what if you're using this rule to upgrade an existing one?

[Pantshandshake]

Well, I see 2 ways to go about this.

The first one is that at some point in the destroy the old weapon and create the new weapon process, you’d want a mysticism check to transfer the fusion. Perhaps lumping that credit cost in with the creation the new weapon?

The second way, is that since the new weapon has to exist before you can transfer a fusion to it, and the old weapon has to be transmuted into 10% of its value before you can make a new weapon, that unless you want to swap fusions across multiple weapons, you lose the fusion on the old weapon.

The second way is more technically accurate, and is how I would expect a “Rules!Rules!Rules!” GM to run this.

[Metaphysician]

Basically, this rule exists to facilitate the "But Society!" style of play where GMs are expected to act as non-sentient computers, and where the rulebook is expected to function as a legal text.