Power attack dice are not something that only happens on a critical hit. They double on a crit.
“ Fatal: The fatal trait includes a die size. On a critical hit, the weapon’s damage die increases to that die size instead of the normal die size, and the weapon adds one additional damage die of the listed size.”
A great pick is Fatal d12 on a critical hit.
Your standard 5d10 damage roll would become 6d12 on a critical, with a great pick.
Games I’ve played double the damage roll, rather than rolling more dice.
Edit1: If you play 5d10 on a critical goes to 10d10, you would roll 11d12.
Edit2: The Fatal trait doesn’t have any carve outs stating there’s an exclusion for power attack, so I am assuming it includes power attack dice.
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On a crit you double everything you would normally get, and add everything you only get on a crit only once.
Doubling can be done by rolling dice twice, or rolling once and multiplying the dice result. So either:
((5*2)+1)d12+(2*(5+3)) {doubling the number of dice}
((5d12)*2)+1d12+(2*(5+3)) {doubling the dice result}
The average damage is the same, but doubling the number of dice will give you a smoother distribution of results.
Greater Striking at level 10? How?
Regardless, since it's fatal the base damage would be 6d12 (2 G. Striking, 2 P.A., 1d12 from fatal effect), then you double the damage as standard. Unless the GM wants you to roll, then it's 12d12.
I checked the Deadly trait and it specifically mentions that the extra dice granted by it is rolled after everything, while fatal just straight up increases the amount of base dice (since it doesn't mention it's supposed to be added later after everything has been doubled).
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Greater Striking at level 10? How?
Regardless, since it's fatal the base damage would be 6d12 (2 G. Striking, 2 P.A., 1d12 from fatal effect), then you double the damage as standard. Unless the GM wants you to roll, then it's 12d12.
I checked the Deadly trait and it specifically mentions that the extra dice granted by it is rolled after everything, while fatal just straight up increases the amount of base dice (since it doesn't mention it's supposed to be added later after everything has been doubled).
The relevant rule is part of the Double Damage rules:
Chapter 9: Playing the Game / General Rules / Damage / Step 1: Roll the Damage Dice and Apply Modifiers, Bonuses, and Penalties / Doubling and Halving DamageSometimes you’ll need to halve or double an amount of damage, such as when the outcome of your Strike is a critical hit, or when you succeed at a basic Reflex save against a spell. When this happens, you roll the damage normally, adding all the normal modifiers, bonuses, and penalties. Then you double or halve the amount as appropriate (rounding down if you halved it). The GM might allow you to roll the dice twice and double the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties instead of doubling the entire result, but this usually works best for single-target attacks or spells at low levels when you have a small number of damage dice to roll. Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled.
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Greater Striking at level 10? How?
Regardless, since it's fatal the base damage would be 6d12 (2 G. Striking, 2 P.A., 1d12 from fatal effect), then you double the damage as standard. Unless the GM wants you to roll, then it's 12d12.
I checked the Deadly trait and it specifically mentions that the extra dice granted by it is rolled after everything, while fatal just straight up increases the amount of base dice (since it doesn't mention it's supposed to be added later after everything has been doubled).
The relevant rule is part of the Double Damage rules:
Chapter 9: Playing the Game / General Rules / Damage / Step 1: Roll the Damage Dice and Apply Modifiers, Bonuses, and Penalties / Doubling and Halving Damage
Sometimes you’ll need to halve or double an amount of damage, such as when the outcome of your Strike is a critical hit, or when you succeed at a basic Reflex save against a spell. When this happens, you roll the damage normally, adding all the normal modifiers, bonuses, and penalties. Then you double or halve the amount as appropriate (rounding down if you halved it). The GM might allow you to roll the dice twice and double the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties instead of doubling the entire result, but this usually works best for single-target attacks or spells at low levels when you have a small number of damage dice to roll. Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon rune’s persistent fire damage , aren’t doubled.
Sorry, meant to edit my formatting and ended up replying instead...
Greater Striking at level 10? How?
It's only a level 12 Rune. It's not that uncommon to obtain gear 2 levels above the party.
In the APs the party gets +2 Striking Weapons at 8th, so it's easy to imagine they'd be +2 Greater Striking by 10th.
Greater Striking at level 10? How?
Regardless, since it's fatal the base damage would be 6d12 (2 G. Striking, 2 P.A., 1d12 from fatal effect), then you double the damage as standard. Unless the GM wants you to roll, then it's 12d12.
I checked the Deadly trait and it specifically mentions that the extra dice granted by it is rolled after everything, while fatal just straight up increases the amount of base dice (since it doesn't mention it's supposed to be added later after everything has been doubled).
The relevant rule is part of the Double Damage rules:
Chapter 9: Playing the Game / General Rules / Damage / Step 1: Roll the Damage Dice and Apply Modifiers, Bonuses, and Penalties / Doubling and Halving Damage
Sometimes you’ll need to halve or double an amount of damage, such as when the outcome of your Strike is a critical hit, or when you succeed at a basic Reflex save against a spell. When this happens, you roll the damage normally, adding all the normal modifiers, bonuses, and penalties. Then you double or halve the amount as appropriate (rounding down if you halved it). The GM might allow you to roll the dice twice and double the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties instead of doubling the entire result, but this usually works best for single-target attacks or spells at low levels when you have a small number of damage dice to roll. Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled.
G$@%+#n it, I thought of this was the case it would've been specified on the trait itself, like deadly.
Greater Striking at level 10? How?It's only a level 12 Rune. It's not that uncommon to obtain gear 2 levels above the party.
In the APs the party gets +2 Striking Weapons at 8th, so it's easy to imagine they'd be +2 Greater Striking by 10th.
I'm just thinking that so far in Age of Ashes we haven't got any Greater Striking Runes at all and we're 11th level already. Although we got a +2 Longbow at 9th level, but so far not even a whiff of Greater Striking.
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G!+%*+n it, I thought of this was the case it would've been specified on the trait itself, like deadly.Greater Striking at level 10? How?
Regardless, since it's fatal the base damage would be 6d12 (2 G. Striking, 2 P.A., 1d12 from fatal effect), then you double the damage as standard. Unless the GM wants you to roll, then it's 12d12.
I checked the Deadly trait and it specifically mentions that the extra dice granted by it is rolled after everything, while fatal just straight up increases the amount of base dice (since it doesn't mention it's supposed to be added later after everything has been doubled).
The relevant rule is part of the Double Damage rules:
Chapter 9: Playing the Game / General Rules / Damage / Step 1: Roll the Damage Dice and Apply Modifiers, Bonuses, and Penalties / Doubling and Halving Damage
Sometimes you’ll need to halve or double an amount of damage, such as when the outcome of your Strike is a critical hit, or when you succeed at a basic Reflex save against a spell. When this happens, you roll the damage normally, adding all the normal modifiers, bonuses, and penalties. Then you double or halve the amount as appropriate (rounding down if you halved it). The GM might allow you to roll the dice twice and double the modifiers, bonuses, and penalties instead of doubling the entire result, but this usually works best for single-target attacks or spells at low levels when you have a small number of damage dice to roll. Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled.
What, you expected rules to be in logical locations???? And you call yourself a gamer...
I think it seems to be very weird that the trait itself doesn't mention this. It's so much simpler. Nothing that a "Additionally, you add one extra dice after the damage is doubled" wouldn't clarify in the feat.
The way it's written just implies that the weapon goes up a step in the "Striking ladder".
Regardless, 11d12 is pretty neat anyways.
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PF2 has a real problem with inconsistent reminder text. The rules say that bonuses that come from critting aren't doubled, but because Deadly calls it out specifically and Fatal doesn't, it reads like Fatal doesn't work the same until you remember that example.