Dragon / Dragon Hybrids?

[J. A.]

Are there any rules for the results of a mating between different types of dragons? For instance, a red-gold hybrid, or black-green, or white-bronze, etc.?

Given how readily they cross with other creatures, it seems odd that they don’t seem to cross with each other. Even if this is a rare event, are there any rules governing the offspring?

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Just apply the half dragon template to another dragon. Makes for some hilarious combos. Like the pink dragon, a half-red white dragon that's immune to both fire and ice.

[Meirril]

J. A. wrote:

Are there any rules for the results of a mating

Lets cut it off right there. No, there are absolutely no rules on mating. This is a game about high fantasy and epic battles. Not monster breeding.

[J. A.]

@Darigaaz, I've seen the pink dragon combo mentioned before, and half-dragon-to-dragon seems to be the default homebrew approach. That was considered quasi-legal in 3.5, just wondered if Pathfinder had ever addressed the question in any way.

@Meirril, if you don't want to contribute, that's fine, but whether or not we "cut it off" is not your call.

[Quixote]

Besides, the varies half- templates would seem to indicate otherwise.

I've never seen rules for such, no. But then, even the standard color/metal/crystal array feels too Pokémon for my liking.

Are you just curious, or do you have something specific you need for a game?

[J. A.]

I'm curious, of course, but beyond that I'm looking for options which might inspire future game material.

I would certainly agree that the color/metal dichotomy feels very dated and inflexible. I'm not as familiar with crystal dragons, void dragons or any of the more exotic kinds, so I don't have a feel for how those compare.

[Artofregicide]

Meirril wrote:

J. A. wrote:

Are there any rules for the results of a mating

Lets cut it off right there. No, there are absolutely no rules on mating. This is a game about high fantasy and epic battles. Not monster breeding.

Curses.

Are there rules on mating with dragons? Asking for a friend, obviously.

[Quixote]

J. A. wrote:

I'm curious, of course, but beyond that I'm looking for options which might inspire future game material.

I would certainly agree that the color/metal dichotomy feels very dated and inflexible. I'm not as familiar with crystal dragons, void dragons or any of the more exotic kinds, so I don't have a feel for how those compare.

As far as I've seen, it's just more of the same.

Personally, I've done away with creature type whenever possible. There's very little mystery and wonder when everything falls neat as can be into tidy little boxes on the shelf.

With dragons specifically, I've statted up unique ones for encounters as-needed, using bits of mythology and folklore for inspiration (like the lindworm and the tarasque).

[Meirril]

J. A. wrote:

I'm curious, of course, but beyond that I'm looking for options which might inspire future game material.

I would certainly agree that the color/metal dichotomy feels very dated and inflexible. I'm not as familiar with crystal dragons, void dragons or any of the more exotic kinds, so I don't have a feel for how those compare.

That is a totally different opinion than looking for rules that cover mix-breeding dragons.

If you look through old D&D and a lot of the evolution of dragon and dragon-type monsters there is no pattern. Patterns emerge as people try to make sense of the previously released material. Particularly, there was a lot of streamlining done when monsters were remade for Pathfinder.

Also I find the approach of imagining the conditions of what a half-breed dragon would be like is useful for writing a long continuing story. Like if you wanted to write a history of Galorian.

But that is practically the opposite of writing an adventure. Monsters in most adventures aren't placed according to what makes sense. You pay attention to CR as much or more than you pay attention to anything else. Sure, you try to follow a theme and you try to make the monsters make sense with the location and story. That said, how many adventures have you been on where there is that one monster that fits CR wise but really makes no sense to be around the rest of the monsters?

There are tons of odd dragons in published modules. Some are totally new monsters made to represent a unique individual, others are modified versions of a standard dragon. The one common thread is the monster fits the situation. The more rules you impose on this sort of thing the less flexible everybody at your table becomes. While I can see a framework as being helpful, just looking at monster stats and modifying them as appropriate to the encounter seems best. Just pick one parent to be 'dominate' and add whatever you feel like till it satisfies you.

Also there really is no reason for a half-breed to be stronger than the parent. In a sense, if that was always going to be the case then there should be very few pure breed dragons. Half breeds should be rare because there is some sort of disadvantage to it.

But ultimately this is uncharted territory.

[J. A.]

Quixote, I'd be very interested in seeing some of your unique dragons, since I've enjoyed the mood and style of what I've seen of your campaign.

[Quixote]

For stats, I'd have to do some digging in the archives; it's been a while since I've had an actual dragon in a game.

There was a slimy, limbless dragon that lived in a swamp. He had horribly acidic, toxic blood and saliva. Ideally, he grabbed a single opponent, then swam off with them and drowned/constricted them and stuck the corpse somewhere to get nice and soft. Barring that, he would get in the thick of a group, get everyone good and exposed to his poison, and then slipped out into the muck and wait for to succumb. That adventure was mostly a cat-and-mouse scenario where the PC's tried to find the cure to the poison (which in turn was a deadly poison to the wurm himself) while he harried them and kept the pressure on.

There was another game with a faerie-ensorcelled forest dragon. Antlers, a green mane, wings like a great hawk, etc. It was less of a "true dragon" and more an extension of the forest's will, having lived so long between worlds that even it's mighty draconic ego had been slowly smothered by the ancient collective intelligence of the wood.
It was extremely fast, had spiked growth, could meld/teleport with stones and trees and could launch quills like a manticore.

There was one who's treasure was all fancy art and functioned as an underboss in a local crime syndicate (not that it's associates knew it was a dragon).
One that used illusions to build a reputation as a fierce band of pirates, but it was really just the one dragon sinking ships and hoarding treasure.
One that "stole" a princess who actually loved him and who was stuck in an arranged marriage.

In my next game, there will eventually be a wise old sea dragon, with lantern-lures and feathers and jeweled scales, but I haven't gotten much farther than the look and feel of her; she's been lonely for so long she can't remember being anything else. She's not wicked, but she is cruel. Beautiful, but dangerous. Like a great storm on the horizon, or the vast, empty sea at night

[J. A.]

All very interesting, thanks. I love your imagery for the sea dragon.

The forest dragon is also intriguing, in part because it breaks completely with the old categories of chromatic/metallic/whatever and follows a habitat-based approach. That sparks ideas.

[RJGrady]

A quick bash is to take on kind of dragon, then give it multiple breath types (retaining the DC and damage while changing the type and range) and mix-and-match other abilities as desired.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Meirril wrote:

Also there really is no reason for a half-breed to be stronger than the parent. In a sense, if that was always going to be the case then there should be very few pure breed dragons. Half breeds should be rare because there is some sort of disadvantage to it.

Could go with the resulting offspring being powerful, but sterile. Like a mule or liger.

[Quixote]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Also there really is no reason for a half-breed to be stronger than the parent. In a sense, if that was always going to be the case then there should be very few pure breed dragons. Half breeds should be rare because there is some sort of disadvantage to it.

Could go with the resulting offspring being powerful, but sterile. Like a mule or liger.

I think any explanation could be justified as easily as any other.

There was a dragon in the Draconomicon that guarded it's lair with half-dragon snakes, crocodiles and stuff.

J. A. wrote:

Quixote, I'd be very interested in seeing some of your unique dragons, since I've enjoyed the mood and style of what I've seen of your campaign.

...All very interesting, thanks...

Thanks, any time.

If you're interested, I have the beginnings of a campaign journal from my last game:

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42tgk?The-DoorBehind-the-Rain#1

[Heather 540]

Perhaps you could remove the elemental immunity of the two parents and replace them with resistance instead? It would make sense of a dragon with two elements not to be completely immune to them.