I'm trying to complete an idea/flesh out a concept and I need some help.
I want to create a vile Hag that specializes in the collecting, trading, and consumption of Soul Gems and Dreamstones.
I'm starting with a Dreamthief Hag, and working towards the Souldrinker prestige class.
I just don't know what class to give her levels in prior to the prestige class.
She probably needs access to the following spells, which may help narrow the available classes, just to fully embrace the concept...
Create Soul Gem
Magic Jar
Trap the Soul
Soul Bind
The Souldrinker prestige class requires that she worship a Daemon Harbinger or a Horseman of the Apocalypse... which means she has to worship a Horseman of the Apocalypse due to the fact that not a single one of the THIRTY Daemon Harbingers are written out enough to offer her anything, so all 30 of them are useless dead in the water choices.
So far I'm thinking that Charon's Evangelist Boons fit best.
She will require Great Fortitude to enter the prestige class. And I really like the flavor of the Soul-Powered Magic feat for her.
Can you help me with this?
Soul bind is 9th level (17+ levels in a spellcasting class), a basic dreamthief hag is CR 11, and you want to go into a prestige class (without full spellcasting advancement)...what CR are you looking at here?
The the Dreamthief Hag, herself, actually isn't THAT scary, even compared to other CR 11 creatures, so I don't feel too bad adding a full 20 class levels to her.
Plus, the SoulDrinker prestige class is far from overpowering, but offers a lot of flavor. It's only 8/10 additional spellcasting levels, too, so I would consider it non-key when calculating CR... so probably around CR 26? Which still sounds high to me, honestly.
Charon's Evangelist Boons:
Source Book of the Damned pg. 36
1: Death’s Blessing (Sp) memory lapse 3/day, catatonia 2/day, or create soul gem 1/day
2: Soul Crush (Su) As a standard action, you can crush a soul gem (such as one you create via create soul gem or one created by a cacodaemon) to gain fast healing 15 for a number of rounds equal to your Hit Dice. This action condemns the crushed soul to Abaddon; resurrecting this victim requires a successful DC 28 caster level check.
3: Death’s Clutches (Sp) You can use soul bind as a spell-like ability once per day.
SoulDrinker gets Enervation as an SLA a handful of times per day. As well as, Vampiric Touch and Wither Limb as SLA's that cost her points from her Soul Pool... a trackable resource with a maximum of 10.
As you can see, the majority of her power is probably going to end up coming from whatever she takes 10 levels in before entering SoulDrinker.
Any particular archetype for either the Wizard or the Arcanist that would perhaps boost her other abilities?
Wizard: has arcane discoveries. Beyond morality might avoid law/chaos spells, steward of the great beyond could block teleportation/summoning near her.
Arcanist: has exploits. Potent magic is obvious, counterspell + greater makes counterspelling practical, dimensional slide is teleport as a move action.
Lore shaman: uses Wis as spellcasting ability (maxing Wis comes with better perception, Will save, slightly different image), hexes include some useful abilities which still work in an antimagic field.
Sorcerer: has a bloodline, Cha as spellcasting ability. Shadow or void-touched or daemon could be relevant and useful. If she's into blasting a sorcerer is the top option too.
Archetypes wouldn't add a great deal here. 9th level spells is enough of a defining class feature if you're not a PC, and wizard or arcanist archetypes don't do as much as some. Well, blood arcanist would let her steal a sorc bloodline if desired.
IMO a wizard or arcanist with 9th level spells is scary enough, add 149 hp, various immunities and free magic items and you can name your own CR. OTOH if she goes for some less than ideal tactic at this level - trying to use her flyby attack and metamagiced touch spells with her bite perhaps - you could reduce her effective CR a bit.
Thanks avr.
I'm thinking that she is going to be Charon's Herald.
Mainly serving as his messenger, his right hand, an official extension of his will.
Her Soul Gems and Dreamstones are useful for Charon in several ways...
The consumption of Soul Gems dooms the soul within to Abaddon... a place quite familiar to Charon.
Charon is also stat'ed to possess all of the crafting feats, which her gems are quite useful for. Both as expensive material components and to provide the essence to create intelligent items.
I am not sure how to build her in his capacity. She obviously should be a lesser CR than Charon, himself. And Charon is CR 30...
So maybe the less optimal Flyby Attack option is better for her. With maybe a slight focus on the effective use of Trap the Soul, for some scary fun... and some expensive gems for her collection should anyone fail their save.
You have a lot going for this, but are you sure you don't want to start the easy way with a Night Hag? They're already inherently proficient in the creation of Soul gems and can revel in the dreams of others.
You have a lot going for this, but are you sure you don't want to start the easy way with a Night Hag? They're already inherently proficient in the creation of Soul gems and can revel in the dreams of others.
I did look at the Night Hag, but chose the Dreamthief Hag for a few reasons.
First, the Night Hag's big draw is her Soul Bind SLA. Which is fantastic, but not completely necessary due to the fact that the Dreamthief Hag is going to end up capable of casting the spell and she gets access to it through the Boons she receives. It's not at will, but it will have to do.
Second, the Dreamthief Hag is capable of making Dreamstones. This adds a whole new dimension to her. It also adds another source of income for her, because "many powerful evil beings find captured minds to be useful components in dark rituals or profane research."
She isn't just trading and selling trapped souls, she is also a merchant of trapped minds. It makes her a little bit more creepy and simultaneously intriguing...
If the misery of man is a drug, she sells it.
I'm trying to complete an idea/flesh out a concept and I need some help.
I want to create a vile Hag that specializes in the collecting, trading, and consumption of Soul Gems and Dreamstones.
I'm starting with a Dreamthief Hag, and working towards the Souldrinker prestige class.
I just don't know what class to give her levels in prior to the prestige class.
She probably needs access to the following spells, which may help narrow the available classes, just to fully embrace the concept...
Create Soul Gem
Magic Jar
Trap the Soul
Soul BindThe Souldrinker prestige class requires that she worship a Daemon Harbinger or a Horseman of the Apocalypse... which means she has to worship a Horseman of the Apocalypse due to the fact that not a single one of the THIRTY Daemon Harbingers are written out enough to offer her anything, so all 30 of them are useless dead in the water choices.
So far I'm thinking that Charon's Evangelist Boons fit best.
She will require Great Fortitude to enter the prestige class. And I really like the flavor of the Soul-Powered Magic feat for her.
Can you help me with this?
The PRC requires:
- Alignment: Neutral evil.
- Feats: Fiendish Obedience, Great Fortitude.
- Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 7 ranks, Knowledge (planes) 7 ranks, Spellcraft 7 ranks.
- Language: Abyssal or Infernal.
- Spells: Ability to cast at least two necromancy spells of two different spell levels.
- Special: Must worship one of the Four Horsemen or a daemon harbinger; must have died or experienced her soul leaving her body (such as via casting magic jar).
The Dreamthief Hag has 13 HD.
To get the PRC, she needs:
Feats: Fiendish Obedience, Great Fortitude. Either 4 HD are needed, or retraining.
Spells: Ability to cast at least two necromancy spells of two different spell levels. One level of Sorcerer, Wizard, Witch can get Bleed/Touch of Fatigue and Inflict Light Wounds/Ray Of Enfeeblement/Ray of Sickening which gets you 0th and 1st level necromancy spells.
Worship: Must worship one of the Four Horsemen or a daemon harbinger. Worship does not require being a divine follower, so you can be a Commoner and still worship.
Out of Body: must have died or experienced her soul leaving her body (such as via casting magic jar). The spell Marionette Possession satisfies this requirement. So do Familiar Melding and Riding Possession.
Unless you allow feat retraining and finness the out-of-body thing, the earliest this hag can qualify is 5th level and the Marionette Possession spell. Being a hag, gaining witch levels is thematic.
After gaining 10 PRC levels, she returns and gets 4 more class levels to bring her to 9th level spells. All four spells you mention are on the class lists.
/cevah
@Caveh, Witch definitely has the right flavor for this, but the usefulness of Hexes is quickly going to diminish with the prestige class levels.
She is starting with a 20 Intelligence, and you have the floating +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2 adjustments to be made for adding class levels to a monster, AND she gets five stat bumps from taking 20 levels... this could get her a ~28 Intelligence without a headband/equipment.
That would make her Hexes have a ~24DC?
Isn't that kind of a joke for a ~CR26 monster?
I know she will have other things to do than just throw Hexes around, so maybe Witch would work just fine for the first ten levels.
I don't know... that's why I started this thread. Lol.
A Wizard will benefit from its Wizard stuffs regardless of its levels in Wizard. It will just miss out on bonus feats and Discoveries provided. But it does lose the extra spells per level according to how I understand prestige classes progress spells.
This makes the Sorcerer a more attractive choice to me. Sure, Bloodline powers and bonus spells will cease during the prestige class, but you still have the benefits of your chosen Bloodline Arcana and much more complete spell progression.
A simple trait makes up for the two lost levels of Caster Level progression, and feats exist to make up lost levels of spell progression if it's deemed necessary.
Too bad Eldritch Heritage can't be taken for the Bloodline you already have in order to progress it during the prestige class. But it's not that big of a deal.
I don't know enough about how an Arcanist's spell progression works to determine whether or not it is a good fit for a prestige class, but I think it is based on adding new spells to a Spellbook each level... which the prestige class does not grant (to my knowledge).
Once again, I don't really know.
That's why I am asking.
I don't even know if I understand prestige class spell progression correctly, so I am by no means an expert.
@VoodistMonk:
While true that hex progression stops, you can bump the DC with a monster feat and with a (metamagic?) rod. Even if they make the save, several hexes are good even on a save. For example Evil Eye. Others don't have saves: Flight, Swamp's Grasp, Murksight. And if you have minions, Coven. Great for them buffing your CL for spells. Or you could go for a witch that gives up hexes. As for Hex DCs, my Ninja 10/Witch 8 has a DC of 18. I don't plan my strategy around hexes, but they can help soften up stuff, and do well with weaker characters. They also help when you assist your minions fight without expending spells.
As to spell lists, the witch list is not as flashy as a wizard's, but it does have healing and condition removal much better than a wizard.
With both Witch and Wizard, there are the Extra X feats so you can get more hexes, discoveries, and so on.
As for how the PRC interacts with your existing spells, you add the PRC levels that say "+1 level of existing class" to the levels of the base class and look up the table to see what the numbers are. You do not learn the two spells/level for witch or wizard, but you do advance the number of spells you case. For sorcerer, you advanced the spells known and the spell slots to cast. Your CL is also the sum of the two. [It gets trickier if you entered with more than one casting class.]
If you go Witch 5/Souldrinker 10, you cast as a 13th level witch with the spell slots of the 13th level witch and with whatever spells you know. You will be casting 7th level spells. Your hexes will still be 5th level, as will your patron spell knowledge. Likewise, Wizard 5/Souldrinker 10, you cast as a 13th level wizard with the spell slots of the 13th level wizard and with whatever spells you know. You will be casting 7th level spells. Likewise, Sorcerer 5/Souldrinker 10, you cast as a 13th level Sorcerer with the spell slots of the 13th level Sorcerer and with whatever spells you know. You will be casting 6th level spells. [Sorcerer lag. Sigh] An Arcanist spells advance just like the Sorcerer's.
If you go Sorcerer, be sure to pick up a Robe of Arcane Heritage for it's +4 to level for bloodline powers.
No matter whick class you pick, get at least a pair of witches with the coven hex as minions. Then you can grab all the Hag Coven goodies: animate dead, baleful polymorph, blight, bestow curse, clairaudience/clairvoyance, charm monster, commune, control weather, dream, forcecage, mind blank, mirage arcana, reincarnate, speak with dead, veil, vision. All of these as At Will spell likes. Great for setting up the environment in preparation for guests.
/cevah
Ooh, Robe of Arcane Heritage, neat. Now I know about that. And knowing is half the battle... violence is the other half.
While Witch is a good fit for this Dreamthief Hag...
I already have a Winter Hag with Winter Witch levels and the Winter Witch prestige class (AND my original Annis Hag Divine Paragon Cleric of Gyronna with the Evangelist prestige class from Kingmaker).
I, apparently, like Hags.
With the Robes of Arcane Heritage, I think I am going to make her a Sorceress.
What Bloodline, or Bloodlines, would be most appropriate? Undead/Sanguine (wildblooded)?
Are there archetypes worth considering that best fit her theme?
I quick threw together a Sanguine-blooded Sorcerer-10/Souldrinker-10, just to see what's what.
I chose Sanguine for the Bloodline for the +1 CL Necromancy spells, but a Bloodline that offers Great Fortitude as a bonus feat may ultimately be more useful just for making it easier to meet the prerequisites of the prestige class.
I haven't really filled in the feats yet, just wanted to get an idea of what the chassis would look like...
Sanguine Sorcerer
1. Bloodline
... Undead/Sanguine
1. Bloodline Power
... Blood is Life
1. Cantrips
1. Spells (Sorcerer)
1(class): Eschew Materials
1(level): Great Fortitude
2.
3. Bloodline Power
... Death's Gift
3. Bloodline Spell
... Chill Touch
3(level):
4. Stat Bump:
5. Bloodline Spell
... False Life
5(level):
6.
7. Bloodline Spell
... Vampiric Touch
7(bloodline): Iron Will
7(level):
8. Stat Bump:
9. Bloodline Power
... Grasp of the Dead
9. Bloodline Spell
... Animate Dead
9(level): Fiendish Obedience
10.
Souldrinker (prestige class)
11/1. Apocalyptic Vow
11/1. Obedience
11/1. Cacodaemon Familiar
11/1(level):
12/2. Stat Bump:
12/2. Enervation 2/day
13/3. Daemonic Boon
... Death's Blessing
...... Memory Lapse 3/day, or
...... Catalonia 2/day, or
...... Create Soul Gem 1/day
13/3(level):
14/4. Lesser Oblivion
15/5. Enervation 4/day
15/5(level):
16/6. Stat Bump:
16/6. Daemonic Boon
... Soul Crush
17/7. Oblivion
17/7(level):
18/8. Enervation 6/day
19/9. Daemonic Boon
... Death's Clutches
19/9(level): Expanded Arcana
20/10. Stat Bump:
20/10. Greater Oblivion
What do you think? Is this viable?
I don't know much about Sorcerers, but I do recommend the The Guide to the Guides which has the following guides:
The Inner Power: A Guide for Sorcerers (Core, APG, UM, UC) (2012)
A Quick Guide to Pathfinder Sorcerers: Gods Don't Need Spellbooks (Core, APG, UM, UC) (Recovered Build Page) (2013)
Magic in the Blood: A guide to Eldritch Heritage and Sorcerer Bloodlines (Core, APG, ARG, UM, UC) (2015)
The (almost) Complete Guide to Sorcerers - A Practical Handbook (Core only) (2009)
Thus She Spoke: The Words of Power Sorcerer (2013)
Sorcerer Nuke/Blast Guide for Pathfinder Society (2015)
Some other magic item to check out are:
Mnemonic Vestment for 1/day casting misc spell from a spellbook rather than one known.
Ring of Spell Knowledge for umd-ing a spellbook (or other source) to temp gain the ability to cast a spell.
Crown of the Kobold King for a slotted +1 CL.
Orange Prism (Ioun Stone) for an unslotted +1 CL
You may also want to check out the feat False Focus for reducing casting costs.
If you use binding for potent minions, check out the Caller's Feather for a bump in HD you get. Also check out the feat Augment Calling for HD bump for a single type.
/cevah
Wow. What a wealth of information.
That should provide some quality reading and entertain me for a while.
Thank you.
I knew about the Mnenomic Vestments and the Orange Prism Ioune Stone.
False Focus is really good. Like a hundred times better than Eschew Materials. Lol.
I have not ever looked into binding Outsiders, at all. But those feathers and that feat are top-notch for such a purpose from the looks of it.