Does every class have a Class DC?


Rules Discussion


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Does every class have a Class DC? Or only certain classes?

Liberty's Edge

Spellcasters do not, so no not everyone does.


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Related question I have noticed some multiclass feats give you trained in that Classes DC.

Example Barbarian Dedication. You become trained in barbarian class DC. Say you were already a class that had a trained DC (such as Fighter) you are going to progress in both equally right? At level 10 your class DC for Both Barbarian and Fighter is 12 right? (Class level + 2 for trained).

Liberty's Edge

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It's 22 + Str Mod, actually (Class DCs add Key Stats, which is almost certainly gonna be Str, and all DCs add 10), and at 11th, the Fighter would rise to Expert in Fighter Class DCs but not Barbarian ones.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Spellcasters do not, so no not everyone does.

Druids do have a class DC, but I suspect that was a typo since none of the class features actually use it.

Silver Crusade

If spellcasters don't have a class DC, what happens if one scores a critical hit with a weapon in the Brawling group and trigger its critical specialization ability (whether through an Owlbear Claw talisman or some other means of accessing critical specialization effects)?

Brawling: the target must make a Fortitude save against your class DC or be slowed 1 until the end of your next turn.

Would a sorcerer who got a lucky critical with a spiked gauntlet with an Owlbear Claw bolted on be out of luck?


Sober Caydenite wrote:

If spellcasters don't have a class DC, what happens if one scores a critical hit with a weapon in the Brawling group and trigger its critical specialization ability (whether through an Owlbear Claw talisman or some other means of accessing critical specialization effects)?

Brawling: the target must make a Fortitude save against your class DC or be slowed 1 until the end of your next turn.

Would a sorcerer who got a lucky critical with a spiked gauntlet with an Owlbear Claw bolted on be out of luck?

Not knowing about other spellcasters and "irregular" crit spec e.g. due to talismans but clerics only get regular crit specialisation based on their favorite weapon and when they do they use their divine spell DC instead. So a cleric of Iori would use divine spell DC for brawling.

CRB page 120 wrote:
You gain expert proficiency with your deity’s favored weapon. When you critically succeed at an attack roll using that weapon, you apply the weapon’s critical specialization effect; use your divine spell DC if necessary.


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Sober Caydenite wrote:

If spellcasters don't have a class DC, what happens if one scores a critical hit with a weapon in the Brawling group and trigger its critical specialization ability (whether through an Owlbear Claw talisman or some other means of accessing critical specialization effects)?

Brawling: the target must make a Fortitude save against your class DC or be slowed 1 until the end of your next turn.

Would a sorcerer who got a lucky critical with a spiked gauntlet with an Owlbear Claw bolted on be out of luck?

Interesting.

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"Class DC" and "spell save DC" for spell casters are pretty much the same thing.


There are some martial abilities which reference class DC where casters using MCD to access them will only be Trained (from the MCD itself), so the casters (except Druids) will be inferior using those abilities at higher levels. I can see this being intentional, where they can't reference a superior class DC from their own class (unless also a martial)

Druids may be an oversight, but it may be future-proofing since it's easy to imagine Wild Shape (et al) unlocking pseudo-martial abilities that would reference a class DC. Or maybe they're more viscerally linked to physical feats?

Since most spell proficiencies go to Legendary, I think they & class DCs are supposed to be in separate lanes. I don't think a caster using an Owlbear Claw will be better at slowing (via Brawling Crit. Spec.) than a Monk. For now, the non-Druid caster's class DC would be 10 it seems, though other than an Owlbear Claw, I'm uncertain they can even access such abilities w/o getting Trained somewhere (or be given an exception like Warpriests who just happen not to go to Legendary.)

Maybe Class DC is misleading, since Wizards certainly are gifted with their own class, just not that martial class stuff.

Liberty's Edge

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Every Character absolutely has the Class DC statistic whether or not they actually have abilities that reference it at any given time.

This is something that is granted flat-out at Character Creation in Step 10, "Finishing Details" just like Age, Hero Points, and even Armor Class. It is always the same formula for every Character (10 + prof + key ability score mod)


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Themetricsystem wrote:

Every Character absolutely has the Class DC statistic whether or not they actually have abilities that reference it at any given time.

This is something that is granted flat-out at Character Creation in Step 10, "Finishing Details" just like Age, Hero Points, and even Armor Class. It is always the same formula for every Character (10 + prof + key ability score mod)

Some even appear to have 2!

*eyes the monk suspiciously*

Liberty's Edge

I DO see what people are talking about though, it's confusing because SOME Classes are not Trained in their Class DC while others ARE.

VERY interesting! This looks like an oversight that's could create problems for Multiclass Characters down the road in terms of future-proofing I think because that means they can NEVER write abilities that USE the Class DC for the Classes which aren't Trained in it unless the Ability also grants the Training as well.

For example, a level 5 Bard with 18 Cha would have their Bard Class DC = 10 + (4 Cha): total of 14

If they take the Fighter Dedication they'd have a Fighter Class DC = 10 + (2 Trained) + (5 level) + (4 Cha) (since they don't get the choice to pick a Key ability score for their MCA Dedication): total of 22

That's a head-scratcher for sure but despite having training in your Class DC the Character almost certainly HAS one no matter what since it's a non-optional step in creating your Character.


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Themetricsystem wrote:

I DO see what people are talking about though, it's confusing because SOME Classes are not Trained in their Class DC while others ARE.

VERY interesting! This looks like an oversight that's could create problems for Multiclass Characters down the road in terms of future-proofing I think because that means they can NEVER write abilities that USE the Class DC for the Classes which aren't Trained in it unless the Ability also grants the Training as well.

For example, a level 5 Bard with 18 Cha would have their Bard Class DC = 10 + (4 Cha): total of 14

If they take the Fighter Dedication they'd have a Fighter Class DC = 10 + (2 Trained) + (5 level) + (4 Cha) (since they don't get the choice to pick a Key ability score for their MCA Dedication): total of 22

That's a head-scratcher for sure but despite having training in your Class DC the Character almost certainly HAS one no matter what since it's a non-optional step in creating your Character.

I believe you would still use either STR or DEX. You don't get a boost, but one of those would still be the Key Ability Score for your Fighter stuff. Key Ability Score is more than just a thing you get a boost to at first level.

Liberty's Edge

I hope you're right about that and I think you are on the money in terms of the RAI but I'm not seeing anything in the CRB that states that your MCA feats grant access to or interact with the Key Ability Score for the multiclass choice.

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