Hello.
I know that the difference between prepared and spontaneous caster has always been "lot of options" vs "flexible casting" and I think it works pretty well for the main class Wizards and Sorcerer but it seems that the repertoire limitation on the Sorcerer dedication (and all class following a repertoire) is too drastic compared to the Wizard Dedication.
Sorcerer Dedication gets 1 spell known per spell level. 3 of which can be signature spells, if I get it right.
Signature spells are awesome, but knowing only 8 spells (if you get to master spellcasting) or 14 with Bloodline Breadth feels much more limiting.
Of course I understand that you are not supposed to have as many spells as a pure Sorcerer, that is obvious. However since you do not get things like bloodline spells, Blood Magic etc... you end up having nothing that makes up for the limitation of fewer spells known compared to a Wizard Dedication (aside from having access to the spell list of your choice).
Balance is a complex issue to work on, and I am well aware of that. However I think that having archetype's repertoire start at 2 spell known per spell level, and 3 (save for 2 highest spell level) with Bloodline Breadth (or other depending on the archetype, I just used sorcerer as an example) would balance the two type of archetypes better.
I don't know if it can be done, if erratas are enough for that or if it's impossible or even if it's actually a terrible idea. I just thought that sharing it would be the best way to make it happen, if it's necessary.
Thanks for reading, and for your opinions/ideas if you share them !
The Sorcerer Archetype grants you 1 more trained Skill than the Wizard Archetype, and uses a different casting stat.
The Wizard only gets 2 spells per level, so increasing the spells a Sorcerer gets would give them parity, which defeats the prepared vs repertoire divide.
You can get Bloodline Spells. Basic Bloodline Spell.
You can double the number of both spells and spell slots with Bloodline Breadth. The Wizard version of this feat only increases spell slots, so the only way the Wizard can gain new spells is with the Learn a Spell activity.
By bloodline spells I meant the one granted by your bloodline to your repertoire (if I understood it right).
However I don't mean that Wizard dedication get more spells per day, but more spell known (which is the point, I know). But they have no limit on them, while the sorcerer dedication get less than half of what actual sorcerers have (and once again, I know they have to have less and I'm fine with it, I just think as it is the limitation is a bit too drastic.)
The usage of a different stat is irrelevant, I think. It is useful, that's for sure, but both stats are useful for different reasons. And 1 more trained skill is nice, but not that relevant either.
I already addressed Bloodline Breadth.
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I agree with your point.
Spontaneous caster archetypes seem extreme limited to me as well.
I don't think the archtypes give signature spells.
So basicly until you get bloodline breadth there are no benfits from being a spontaneous caster.
And bloodline breadth is 2 spell levels behind on your highest spell level.
So a level 8 character multiclassing to sorcerer with basic spell cast and bloodline breadth has a repetoir of 2 level 1 spells, 1 level 2 spell and 1 level 3 spell and 2 cantrips he can't change without spending downtime. And can cast 2 level 1 spells, 1 level 2 spell and 1 level 3 spell.
While his wizard counterpart can cast the same number of spells, but can choose his 2 cantrips out of 4 cantrips in his spellbook each day.
and He will have 4 levei 1 spells in his spellbook, 2 level 2 spells, and 2 level 3 spells without spending any extra money.
Having a repetoire has no meaning if you have only 1 spell per spell level.
The errata improved Spontaneous Caster Archetypes considerably.
Page 219: Under Spellcasting Archetypes, in the Basic Spellcasting Feat, change the second sentence to “At 6th level, they grant you a 2nd-level spell slot, and if you have a spell repertoire, you can select one spell from your repertoire as a signature spell.” In the Expert Spellcasting Feat, after the first sentence, add “If you have a spell repertoire, you can select a second spell from your repertoire as a signature spell.” In the Master Spellcasting Feat, after the first sentence, add “If you have a spell repertoire, you can select a third spell from your repertoire as a signature spell.”
Spellcasting Dedication Feats (pages 222, 224, 225, and 230) In the spellcasting dedication feats, you can prepare or add to your repertoire common cantrips of your spellcasting tradition, whether from this book or other cantrips of that tradition you learn or discover.
Page 230: In the Sorcerer Dedication feat, replace the second sentence of the second paragraph with “You gain a spell repertoire with two common cantrips from the spell list associated with your bloodline, from the spells granted by your bloodline, or any other cantrips of that tradition you learn or discover.” This grants access to the bloodline-granted cantrips as well as those on the associated spell list.
So post errata:
If you have Basic Spellcasting feat and never took bloodline breadth AND never used the Learn a Spell activity this still doesn't give you anymore spells than pre-errata as I read it. So how is this improved considerably? Picking out one of the spells to be Signature is nice but still seems very spell limited to me unless I'm missing something. Was it implied you couldn't try to learn new spells before the errata?
Pre-errata you'd have one spell known per spell level with no ability to heighten them (except for MC bards who could pick up a signature spell with a feat). Which uh... wasn't really spontaneous.
You still don't get a lot of spells known, but having more signature spells means you get some flexibility now on what you cast.
Ok, thanks. Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding correctly. Basically, I'm just trying to find a way to get the Haste Spell for my rogue. All the other spells are just added bonus.
Ok, thanks. Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding correctly. Basically, I'm just trying to find a way to get the Haste Spell for my rogue. All the other spells are just added bonus.
If all you want is Haste, it might just be easier to purchase a wand of Haste. As a MC spellcaster, you'd get Haste at 8th level. A wand of a 3rd level spell a 7th level item, costing 360 gp. Now, to use the wand you'd need to either have Trick Magic Item (which would take an extra action), or take the Multiclass Dedication for a spellcasting tradition that can cast Haste. If you're a Human, you can take Multitalented at 9th level, saving you that 2nd level Rogue feat / allowing you to have taken a different dedication instead.
Ok, thanks. Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding correctly. Basically, I'm just trying to find a way to get the Haste Spell for my rogue. All the other spells are just added bonus.If all you want is Haste, it might just be easier to purchase a wand of Haste. As a MC spellcaster, you'd get Haste at 8th level. A wand of a 3rd level spell a 7th level item, costing 360 gp. Now, to use the wand you'd need to either have Trick Magic Item (which would take an extra action), or take the Multiclass Dedication for a spellcasting tradition that can cast Haste. If you're a Human, you can take Multitalented at 9th level, saving you that 2nd level Rogue feat / allowing you to have taken a different dedication instead.
Great suggestion. This is a society character so gold resources being more limited I'll have to weight the cost of the wand. I like the idea of just taking the MC Dedication that way I wouldn't have to burn another archetype feat (Basic Spellcasting) just to get to the Haste spell and with the wand could get it a level sooner. Thanks!
Great suggestion. This is a society character so gold resources being more limited I'll have to weight the cost of the wand. I like the idea of just taking the MC Dedication that way I wouldn't have to burn another archetype feat (Basic Spellcasting) just to get to the Haste spell and with the wand could get it a level sooner. Thanks!
If this is a Society character, that's even better. If your character has gone the Pathfinder Training route (instead of a Field Commission), and has spent at least one networking point with the School of Spells, you can get one free scroll of Haste at the start of every scenario once you hit 5th level. Now, that's one per scenario, not one per day like a Wand would be, but it's not nothing. Then at 7th level or whenever you decide it fits your budget, you can buy the wand and start taking a higher level consumable item.