My response would be (and I know it's wrong to use real life for game scenarios) that holding your breath is a conscious action. If you dropped an unconscious (not just sleeping) person in the lake, they'd take in water and drown.
In example 2, a Hero Point to reroll the Fortitude save for drowning.
But I don't think you can use it to stabilize. I mean, you could. But if you dropped an unconscious and stable person in the water, they'd drown.
I would allow a character to use a hero point to stabilize wile in the water which would make the character float to the surface face up (if at all possible) and not drown for a "wile" depending on the situation maby be washed ashore with possible int and wis penalties for a wile to represent some brain damage. If it doesn't make sense for the character to float up (ie they are in full plate or in an underwater cave or just way to far underwater) then I as the GM would "try" to invent a situation where the character could possibly survive... it is a fantasy world after all (magic kelp that grants water breathing/magic air bubbles/passing silkie or murfolk/Swallowed by a whale) but I'd make sure the player understands this is an exceptional circumstance and not to expect this kind of thing all the time I'd be more lenient if the player had multiple hero points being spent since you spend all current hero points to stabilize.
Why is the PC sinking in the first place? Unconscious human bodies float. If the blow that downed him came from the front, he'd likely fall backwards, and thus be floating face up. I suppose if he was wearing Full Plate or something he'd sink, but at that point, he made a foolish choice to swim in the first place.
Why is the PC sinking in the first place? Unconscious human bodies float. If the blow that downed him came from the front, he'd likely fall backwards, and thus be floating face up. I suppose if he was wearing Full Plate or something he'd sink, but at that point, he made a foolish choice to swim in the first place.
Unconscious human bodies only float some of the time (depending on body type, with equipment & backpacks playing a large factor). Have you not held your breath and floated to the bottom of a pool or pond? And that's with extra air.
(Plus, my brother as a toddler floated down to the bottom of a swimming pool. Thankfully my uncle noticed his absence & my sister staring into the pool and put two & two together.)And floating on one's back w/ mouth & nose outside the water is unlikely too.
An older corpse floats well, much due to postmortem bacterial chemistry.
Gangsters don't have problems dumping the body in water, they have problems with the body returning a few days later!
That said, it's the heroic high fantasy genre and they're spending a Hero Point, so they should be given "one last chance" to survive or be washed ashore or find driftwood or so forth.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The second use of the hero point allows you to use it to "avoid death."
It seems kind of mean spirited and contrary to the written intent of the mechanic for a GM to let someone spend a hero point, stabilize, then rule that they immediately drown.
That's just my 2c tho.
The second use of the hero point allows you to use it to "avoid death."
It seems kind of mean spirited and contrary to the written intent of the mechanic for a GM to let someone spend a hero point, stabilize, then rule that they immediately drown.
That's just my 2c tho.
Avoid death for how long, tho?
You're avoiding death while in the middle of a situation that will just cause death again.
Can they avoid death, take a nap, and get their spells back after a good night's sleep in the lake?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Can they avoid death, take a nap, and get their spells back after a good night's sleep in the lake?
Lot of straw there.
Lot of straw there.
Can they avoid death, take a nap, and get their spells back after a good night's sleep in the lake?
Straw Golems are the best golems!!!
(To debate that is.)
The second use of the hero point allows you to use it to "avoid death."
It seems kind of mean spirited and contrary to the written intent of the mechanic for a GM to let someone spend a hero point, stabilize, then rule that they immediately drown.
That's just my 2c tho.
Avoid death for how long, tho?
You're avoiding death while in the middle of a situation that will just cause death again.
Can they avoid death, take a nap, and get their spells back after a good night's sleep in the lake?
I wouldn't say it's a matter of how long. The hero point gets the hero out of that particular situation. It's the GM's job to figure out how.
"Oh look, the hero landed in some reeds and gets to not drown."
Or maybe
"Some fishermen who heard the commotion helped the hero while his pals fought off the baddies. Now they are wondering if the heroes can help them do XYZ."
Hm, the player doesn't lose their hero arbitrarily and the GM has an adventure hook to boot.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
The second use of the hero point allows you to use it to "avoid death."
It seems kind of mean spirited and contrary to the written intent of the mechanic for a GM to let someone spend a hero point, stabilize, then rule that they immediately drown.
That's just my 2c tho.
Avoid death for how long, tho?
You're avoiding death while in the middle of a situation that will just cause death again.
Can they avoid death, take a nap, and get their spells back after a good night's sleep in the lake?
I wouldn't say it's a matter of how long. The hero point gets the hero out of that particular situation. It's the GM's job to figure out how.
"Oh look, the hero landed in some reeds and gets to not drown."
Or maybe
"Some fishermen who heard the commotion helped the hero while his pals fought off the baddies. Now they are wondering if the heroes can help them do XYZ."
Hm, the player doesn't lose their hero arbitrarily and the GM has an adventure hook to boot.
Fishermen catch an adventurer with a plot hook.......
"Look Salty Bob. You just gotta know how to use the right bait and where to toss in your line. I've caught 3 Paladins and a wizard just today".....
Actually the CRB implementation is perfectly fine. It's the super nerf from the errata that makes it not very heroic.
In PF1, I would say the fisherman rescuing the PC was perfectly viable. Hero Points were gained 1 per level with a max of 3. In PF2, you get a Hero Point at the beginning of every game session. A free get-out-of-death-free card every session is kind of wah-wah-wah to me.
The thing is that you can't have a means of surviving the pulverization of your home planet to make way for an intergalactic highway and a re-roll of one die each evening of play both in one system.
And while my preference is on the once-in-a-while "oh-sh1t" button represented by the old hero points at least for PF2 it seems the devs were going for the later option, which is a dynamic way to mitigate few bad rolls, but not the old get-out-of-jail card.
The thing is that you can't have a means of surviving the pulverization of your home planet to make way for an intergalactic highway and a re-roll of one die each evening of play both in one system.
And while my preference is on the once-in-a-while "oh-sh1t" button represented by the old hero points at least for PF2 it seems the devs were going for the later option, which is a dynamic way to mitigate few bad rolls, but not the old get-out-of-jail card.
Well, you can't have them both in one point pool.
You could have both PF1 Hero Points and PF2 Hero Points in the same game just fine as long as you keep them separate. Rename one of them.
Probably keep 'Hero Points' as the PF2 hero points so that you don't get confused when reading PF2 rules. Call the get-out-of-jail free button 'Epic Plot Points', or 'Golden Hero Points' or something like that.
I'd spend my hero point to have someone take my place and lay down in front of the bulldozer for me.
So spending the Hero Points also turns off all persistent damage effects?The second use of the hero point allows you to use it to "avoid death."
It seems kind of mean spirited and contrary to the written intent of the mechanic for a GM to let someone spend a hero point, stabilize, then rule that they immediately drown.
That's just my 2c tho.
Avoid death for how long, tho?
You're avoiding death while in the middle of a situation that will just cause death again.
Can they avoid death, take a nap, and get their spells back after a good night's sleep in the lake?
I wouldn't say it's a matter of how long. The hero point gets the hero out of that particular situation. It's the GM's job to figure out how.
"Oh look, the hero landed in some reeds and gets to not drown."
Or maybe
"Some fishermen who heard the commotion helped the hero while his pals fought off the baddies. Now they are wondering if the heroes can help them do XYZ."
Hm, the player doesn't lose their hero arbitrarily and the GM has an adventure hook to boot.
That's up to the GM and group.
It's probably a good ruling to speak about at session 0 and to be consistent with.
Personally I'd go for yes. You fell in the lava and X happened. You're terribly scarred but by some miracle you survived. Whether it's a third party getting you out, or GM fiat that you basically pull yourself out by sheer will even though you were basically unconscious and you can't remember doing it.
So in an empty room with you and the enemy and you have an ongoing acid effect using the Hero Point removes it.
First off, sorry about the delayed reply.
I think that's probably how I'd interpret it in a heroic setting. Basically hero goes down to dying, has a persistent effect pushing him to the brink, pops an action point and when he stabilizes, the effect in play is neutralized. Otherwise why bother using the hero point?
In grimdark settings, I suppose his face melts off and he either creates a new character or adds a 2 to the end of Bob the fighters name.