Area damage rolls


Rules Discussion


Hi,

Not sure why but I cannot find this info in the rule book. If two creatures are affected by a area damage effect like the Fireball Spell, does each creature roll its own damage or does the caster roll once for all creatures in the area? (I know each creature still does individual Reflex save)


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I haven't found the written rule just yet, but seeing as 2nd Edition went out of its way to significantly reduce the number of dice rolls from previous editions, I'd assume it's roll once and apply the same value to everyone.


CRB has many examples of rolling once and applying to all. An example is the Swipe feat on page 148. I don’t think it’s explicitly stated what the general rule is.

Silver Crusade

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On Page 450 of the CRB:
"In the midst of combat, you attempt checks to determine if you can damage your foe with weapons, spells, or alchemical concoctions. On a successful check, you hit and deal damage."

"Damage is sometimes given as a fixed amount, but more often than not you’ll make a damage roll to determine how much damage you deal."

"If you’re casting a 3rd-level fireball spell, you’ll roll 6d6."


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
corwyn42 (paraphrased) wrote:
You, you, not I, you.

Well, when you put it that way. XD


The character causing damage rolls once, unless they have something that says otherwise.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I suspect the roller of the damage has never been in question. The real question is just do you roll once per effect, or once per target. Corwyn's last quote weakly implies once per effect.


YogoZuno wrote:
I suspect the roller of the damage has never been in question. The real question is just do you roll once per effect, or once per target. Corwyn's last quote weakly implies once per effect.

Yes exactly. I'm just thinking it would be devastating to the party if enemy wizard rolled 36 with a single fireball and everyone had to do save on that... would be more lenient each character had its roll. But thats a lot of rolling too...


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Zhamer00 wrote:
YogoZuno wrote:
I suspect the roller of the damage has never been in question. The real question is just do you roll once per effect, or once per target. Corwyn's last quote weakly implies once per effect.
Yes exactly. I'm just thinking it would be devastating to the party if enemy wizard rolled 36 with a single fireball and everyone had to do save on that... would be more lenient each character had its roll. But thats a lot of rolling too...

It is also a lot more complicated to track degrees of success and separate damage rolls at the same time.

A single damage roll is meant to represent how powerful a fireball the wizard makes, and the degree of success is how well you avoid it.


Captain Morgan wrote:
...A single damage roll is meant to represent how powerful a fireball the wizard makes, and the degree of success is how well you avoid it.

Maybe phrase it "how perfect the wizard is able to cast the fireball" (like getting all the somatic gestures right and correctly timed, and the verbal component intoned just right, without slurring...)


Every target already rolls its save which might change the received damage. Rolling damage also for each target is a bit much unnessecary rolling.


Franz Lunzer wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
...A single damage roll is meant to represent how powerful a fireball the wizard makes, and the degree of success is how well you avoid it.
Maybe phrase it "how perfect the wizard is able to cast the fireball" (like getting all the somatic gestures right and correctly timed, and the verbal component intoned just right, without slurring...)

If you have practised that you should not get it wrong - musicians don’t miss notes.

I suspect the real problem is that magic is somehow random and either makes you improvise, or is just random.


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krobrina wrote:
Franz Lunzer wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
...A single damage roll is meant to represent how powerful a fireball the wizard makes, and the degree of success is how well you avoid it.
Maybe phrase it "how perfect the wizard is able to cast the fireball" (like getting all the somatic gestures right and correctly timed, and the verbal component intoned just right, without slurring...)

If you have practised that you should not get it wrong - musicians don’t miss notes.

I suspect the real problem is that magic is somehow random and either makes you improvise, or is just random.

Musicians don't miss notes, but they can certainly make them sound real bad. Wizards could be similar, they get the spell off, but it's real sloppy.


Salamileg wrote:
Musicians don't miss notes, but they can certainly make them sound real bad. Wizards could be similar, they get the spell off, but it's real sloppy.

I don't understand what that means, or how it happens to a competent musician.


krobrina wrote:
Salamileg wrote:
Musicians don't miss notes, but they can certainly make them sound real bad. Wizards could be similar, they get the spell off, but it's real sloppy.
I don't understand what that means, or how it happens to a competent musician.

Well, if that musician can also dodge attacks against them and do the equivalent of targeting the spell while playing, then we are talking.


Franz Lunzer wrote:
Well, if that musician can also dodge attacks against them and do the equivalent of targeting the spell while playing, then we are talking.

I feel that's addressed by the Steady Spellcasting feat and the fact that I can't "take 3" on my d6s damage to fireball an object out of combat.

edit: I can't remember if there is a feat to remove the need for somatic actions when casting. I can see someone grabbing your arm as being a problem for that. That feat should probably come into this discussion somwhere.


krobrina wrote:
Franz Lunzer wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
...A single damage roll is meant to represent how powerful a fireball the wizard makes, and the degree of success is how well you avoid it.
Maybe phrase it "how perfect the wizard is able to cast the fireball" (like getting all the somatic gestures right and correctly timed, and the verbal component intoned just right, without slurring...)

If you have practiced that you should not get it wrong - musicians don’t miss notes.

I suspect the real problem is that magic is somehow random and either makes you improvise, or is just random.

I don't know about you, but the professional piano teach I know who's been playing for over 20 years still fat-thumbs a key every once in a while, or the fact that dozens of rock musicians have accidentally played the wrong riff or hit the wrong cord live on stage during a concert. Plus, if you've been adventuring all day, maybe your mouth is dry while you're incanting and you cough during a chant, or your finger twitches from fatigue while making funny naruto hand signs, stuff happens


Once in a while is fine. No human is perfect. Variance for spellcasting damage is huge though.


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One of the benefits of only rolling damage once and then comparing results is that it helps reinforce the positive or negative aspects of the saving throws. It would kind of stink to get a success on your saving throw and by the variance of the dice (half of the roll of 18) take more damage then the guy who crit failed his save (double the roll of 3). That isn't a fun player experience.


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The variation in damage (in character) could be the result of humidity or relative air pressure or the shape of the room or the location of ley lines or the thinness of the astral plane in this location.

Or sausage fingers.


Thanks everyone. That's some amazing good feedback. I will have the caster roll once and each target roll just the save.

Much appreciated.

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