Denying the Dirty Trickster: Bring out your CMD builds! (DPR Olympics)


Advice


Over in another thread, a posted assassin build was quite the slicey-dicey versus blind, panicked, nauseated opponents....

Ryze Kuja wrote:
"...This is a Dirty Tricks Slayer build I came up with a while back and I sent this guy and a 2handed Slayer to assassinate my party of 5 PC’s. At level 12, they caused 3 player deaths in 6 rounds, so this build is not only a battlefield controller with Dirty Tricks, but also built for high damage...."

Your task is to not be that guy barfing his lunch up out though a severed-neck hole in a gruesome anime geyser. So, a 12th-level "DPR Olympics", in which the D stands for don't-die-dimwit.

Ryze didn't provide a CMB number to beat, but you may reasonably surmise that it is high enough altitude that supplemental oxygen is recommended.

Good luck.


Any more detail on allowed stuff - consumable use, to-PFS-or-not-to-PFS, whether you need to be safe from one combat maneuver or 24/7?


Given exceptionally sneaky and PC-level intelligent adversaries with all the time in the world to scope you out....

Round 1:
* ...No consumables or spells will be running unless their duration is an hour or more, unless it's something you can deploy as an immediate action while flat-footed. (Anything shorter your adversaries will just wait out until duration ebbs.)

* ...You are flat-footed, unless possessing widgetry that says you're not.

* ...You are attacked in a surprise-round in which you are surprised (unless possessing widgetry that says you're not) by a Stealthing, Invisible, and Silent opponent who executes a Quick Dirty Trick versus your CMD. (If you fail, it all heads downhill very fast. Assume your adversaries know your weaknesses, and will exploit your worst.)

~ ~ ~

The easiest "solution" is anything that insta-warps you out of danger; assuming such solutions exist, then ideally we should all have them. But let's say we don't, for whatever reason, and we're stuck relying on our CMD, such as at is. --Who can post the highest number, either "all day CMD" or one-shot?

Use any gimmickry you like, but indicate if it's not PFS-legal.


Would simply becoming two sizes large not work? Or is that only for the more hands on control combat maneuvers?


Slim Jim wrote:
Ryze didn't provide a CMB number to beat, but you may reasonably surmise that it is high enough altitude that supplemental oxygen is recommended.

It's not that high, honestly. Although the "NPC" has used around 70k GP on their two weapons, they've blown it all on special abilities. I suspect their CMB is in the low 30's.

Slim Jim wrote:
Who can post the highest number, either "all day CMD" or one-shot?

Considering that there's no buffing and no actions taken, those numbers are probably the same unless it's possible to beat the assassin's initiative.

====

Here's a couple of ideas to come out on top.

Urban Bloodrager 12 (PFS legal)
Start raging as an immediate action thanks to Lightning Rager, and cast Bladed Dash through Greater Bloodrage to turn the tables on the assassin. Should be doable up to three times per day with 14 Cha.

Blatherskite Gunslinger 3 / something sneaky 9 (PFS legal)
As part of the initiative roll, which happens before anyone acts in the surprise round, the Blatherskite is allowed to use stealth. So the moment the "Stealthing, Invisible, and Silent opponent" tries anything the Blatherskite relies on their cowardly instincts to blink out of existence.

Any build with an Ioun Wyrd Protector Familiar
30 ft Blindsight, construct immunities, and the In Harm's Way feat path. So your familiar intervenes no matter if it's a Dirty Trick maneuver, Assassinate, or Coup de Grace.


So, I'm thinking the most dangerous Dirty Trick is the one where you are Blinded.

You can function well while Blind with a combination of Scent or Tremorsense + the Blindfighting Feat. Greater and Improved blindfighting are very helpful. In the event that you are Blind and Deaf, then there is the Echolocation Spell.

If you carry an Eversmoking Bottle, you can make your opponents Blind right back at them.

Restoration and Lesser Restoration can remove some of the Conditions. Paladins can remove a lot of the conditions.

Maneuver Master Monks with Improved Dirty Trick get Attacks of Opportunity against people who attempt Dirty Tricks even when their attackers have Improved Dirty Trick themselves.


SorrySleeping wrote:
Would simply becoming two sizes large not work? Or is that only for the more hands on control combat maneuvers?

Dirty Tricks doesn't have a Size Limit. That being said, Growing in Size does increase your CMD, so your solution does have merit.


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There are additional things that could be done(such as such as simply increasing my stats via magic items) but since I wasn't sure what sort point buy we were looking at, this is what I came up with.

No Dirty Tricks

Spoiler:

Stats: Strength 18(20), Dexterity 16(14), rest 10.
Race: Human
Racial Trait: Focused Study
Traits: Adopted[Gnome]->Prankster, Fate's Favored
Deity: Akuma(LE), Jacarkas(NE), or Shivaska(CE)
Class(12): Ranger(2), Barbarian(3), Fighter(4), Pathfinder Delver(3)
Favored Class: Fighter(+4 vs Dirty trick and Grapple)
Favored Enemy: Ooze(+2)
Trap Sense: +4
Combat Style: Weapon and Shield
Feats: Solo Maneuvers(1st), Eldritch Heritage[Kobold](3rd), Fiendish Obedience(5th), Dodge(7th), Defensive Combat Training(9th), Improved Eldritch Heritage[Trap Sense](11th)
Bonus Feats: Skill Focus[Disable Device](1st), Shield Focus(2nd), Focused Ooze Expertise(6th), Punishing Step(7th), Skill Focus[](8th), Shield Specialization(Tower)(9th)
Gear: Boneless Leather, Tower Shield, Banner of the Scarlet Rose, Juggernaught's Pauldrons
CMD Calc: 10+BAB+Str+Dex+Size+misc
CMD: 10+12(Defensive C.T.)+5+2+1+4(FCB)+1(Trait)+1(Solo M.)+2(Punishing S.)+4(F. Obed)+3(F. Ooze)+5(Shield Spec.)+5(Boneless L.)+5(Banner of S.R.)+4(Juggernaught's P.)= 64

Some Notes about the build:
*Thanks to Uncanny dodge this character isn't caught flatfooted during combat, and therefore gains their full CMD at all times.
*I haven't bothered with buffs that don't last all day since it's assumed that the other character is getting the jump on them.
*Guardbreaker(Pathfinder Delver lvl 3) gives me a bonus equal to my trap sense against oozes which counts as and stacks with favored enemy ooze. Focused Ooze expertise lets me add half my favored enemy bonus against oozes to my CMD (I get the full value added to my CMD against oozes).
*Shield Specialization lets me add the base shield bonus I get to my shield against CMD+1. Since I chose tower shield this is a +5
*Juggernaught's Pauldrons allows you to have enlarge person on yourself at will, making it effectively an all day buff.

I think everything else is pretty self explanatory.

With a CMD of 64 against dirty tricks, they would need at minimum a +44 to even land a dirty trick on a 20.


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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
So, I'm thinking the most dangerous Dirty Trick is the one where you are Blinded.

That's normally the case, but Dirty Trick Master lets you worsen the other conditions into debilitating effects.

Shaken to Frightened, Dazzled to Dazed, Sickened to Nauseated, and Entangled to Pinned. While you're Dazed/Nauseated, you can't even remove the conditions since that requires a standard action (or swift as a paladin).
The goal as a Dirty Trick Master user is to get two Dirty Tricks off in a single round so that you completely shut down your opponent without any chance of retaliation. The linked build could actually get pummeled by someone with a CMD of 10 before it manages to be a threat.


LordKailas wrote:
[b]** spoiler omitted **...

Are you carrying the Tower Shield and Banner of the Scarlet Rose in two separate hands? (If so, you're without a weapon.)


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Layered defences. There's few things as frustrating as having a single perfect defence which turns off because the GM found a special ability somewhere which does that.

Spoiler:
Half-elf wizard (divination/foresight subschool) 12
Str 12, Dex 14+4belt=18, Con 12, Int 17+2race+3level+6headband=28, Wis 12, Cha 7
CMD 36 (BAB+6, Int+9, Str+1, Dex+4, deflection +5, insight +1)
Traits: wayang spell hunter (mirror image), defensive strategist, per as class skill, +2 initiative
Feats: Scribe scroll, skill focus (perception), improved initiative, empower spell, additional traits, blind fight, quicken spell, 2 more
Arcane discoveries: Knowledge is power
Notable spells: Contingency (empowered mirror image when attacked), see invisibility, heightened awareness, see beyond, visualization of the mind
Arctic hare familiar
headband of vast intelligence +6, belt of incredible dexterity +4, ring of protection +5, dusty rose prism ioun stone, +1 spell storing (frigid touch) armored kilt, cloak of protection +3, boots of escape

The plan: See everything with a perception in the high 30's and see invisibility up. If you don't see it, you act in the surprise round anyway and aren't flat-footed even before you act (including vs enemies you haven't seen), and have +24 initiative. Once attacked (phrase it right and it should apply to combat maneuvers) you have a minimum of 7 mirror images, and if hit can cast frigid touch from your spell storing armor on your attacker to auto-stagger them. Your CMD isn't auto-win by any means but it's respectable.

And when you act you have the full power of a 12th level wizard to bring upon them or to save yourself.


Slim Jim wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
[b]** spoiler omitted **...
Are you carrying the Tower Shield and Banner of the Scarlet Rose in two separate hands? (If so, you're without a weapon.)

True, though I think there's enough money left to make the shield a +1 dancing shield. Worse case scenario I give up the tower shield and specialize in heavy shield instead, which would cause a loss of 2 cmd overall


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"Con-deesh-uns? These are problems for mortals, yes?"

Wyrwood warpriest 12
Feats: improved unarmed strike, weapon focus (unarmed), blind-fight, silent spell, power attack, monkey style, weapon spec. (unarmed), combat reflexes, monkey moves, greater weapon focus (unarmed), quick channel, greater weapon spec. (unarmed)
Gear: construct channel brick
Notable spells: surmount affliction, remove xxx, freedom of movement

Sure you can inflict all kinds of conditions on a small creature without an amazing CMD, but if that creature is a construct (with full immunities) with blind-fight and the ability to remove unwanted conditions as a swift action, making them matter is harder. Tripping, sundering or disarming won't do a lot here either, and grappling has to overcome freedom of movement.

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