Is there any class, archetype, or PrC in the game that grants it at first level? (There are several that offer Precise Shot.)
Flurry from zen archer or far strike monk is a lot like this.
If you're looking at PrCs then you're not looking at a first level character, which means fighter 1 could do. Or hinterlander 1. The latter bypasses prereqs if that's relevant.
Flurry from zen archer or far strike monk is a lot like this.Zen Archer is restricted to bows (won't be a problem for many, but a build I'm working on uses something else), and Far Strike monk is likewise limited to thrown weapons.
If you're looking at PrCs then you're not looking at a first level character, which means fighter 1 could do.Fighter will have to eat Point Blank Shot as a tax-feat.
Or hinterlander 1. The latter bypasses prereqs if that's relevant.
I did see that, but what it giveth in the form of waiving archery feat prerequisites, it more than taketh away in the form of saddling itself with two irritating tax-feats for PrC entry requirements.
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(This hunt would be going a lot easier if Nethys didn't have a weird bug going on in which a Classes-targeted query for "Rapid Shot" is only returning a tiny handful of choices out of the dozens you would normally expect to see (e.g., everything with access to Ranger combat styles, etc).
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(This hunt would be going a lot easier if Nethys didn't have a weird bug going on in which a Classes-targeted query for "Rapid Shot" is only returning a tiny handful of choices out of the dozens you would normally expect to see (e.g., everything with access to Ranger combat styles, etc).
It's working as intended. Unless the class/archetype has the exact text "Rapid Shot" in it, it won't be returned by the search function. Having access to Ranger Combat Styles doesn't magically link them together.
It would also help to know why/what you're trying to do and get from Rapid Shot.
You can grab it at first level, or you can have it without prereqs. Fairly easily in either case.
Doing both of those, however : signs point to No.
Can I ask what your issue with PBS is ?
Or why you'd rather wait for a PrC than wait for 2nd level on anything with ranger styles - or just buy it at creation? Knowing what you're trying to do would make it easier to help.
As far as feat taxes go it's not a bad one... and it's a prerequisite for most ranged combat feats as well anyway, including good ones - or other quasi mandatory ones like Precise Shot.
It would also help to know why/what you're trying to do and get from Rapid Shot.Strength-dumped goblin w/repeating crossbow, or maybe a blowgun or something else unusual (i.e., that's not thrown, or a bow). Don't want an excessive number of fighter levels in the stack getting feats.
Can I ask what your issue with PBS is?
It's a tax-feat. (It's not a bad feat -- in fact it's quite good -- it's just one that I don't want to spend slots locking away.)
If the goal is simply to skip PBS, then what is the issue with just taking it as a ranger combat style bonus feat at 2nd level? You don’t need to meet its prerequisites that way. Is there any pressing reason as to why it must be a 1st level option?
If the goal is simply to skip PBS, then what is the issue with just taking it as a ranger combat style bonus feat at 2nd level? You don’t need to meet its prerequisites that way. Is there any pressing reason as to why it must be a 1st level option?
Because that's two class levels (i.e., same as fighter 1st&2nd, with the trade-off differential being other ranger bling versus +1 fighter feat spent on PBS).
The goal isn't to skip PBS per se, it's to compress the build.
How about taking Overwatch Style?
I'm guessing this is for a rather low-level endeavor, so you might not feel the hurt of forgoing iteratives or haste attacks. Style Shifter, Unarmed Fighter and MoMS let's you cheat prerequisites.
How about taking Overwatch Style?
Well, it's a Style feat (read: needs a swift-action to activate unless you have a lot of levels in some special-sauce class) which requires Rapid Shot itself as prerequisite (not to mention the always odious Weapon Focus and Precise Shot making for a grand total of three tax-feats), all for the benefit of specifying *one* more readied-attack per turn than usual a normal schmuck without any feats at all. (Is the writer trolling me?) Doesn't stack with Combat Patrol either (for those who've secured ability to make AoOs with ranged weapons).
Overwatch Style is the sort of thing that a BBEG overlord boss trains his minions stationed on the castle parapets to have, because they're not expected to survive past the first round after being blown up by the PCs' AoE.
for a grand total of three tax-feats
And that's why you dip one level of a class that lets you cheat feat prerequisites for style feats. So no matter what you spend your other feats on you can make two ranged attacks per round.
Overwatch Style has problems:
* You cannot activate a style before combat begins (and Overwatch Style does not exempt itself from this).
* Overwatch Style cannot be activated during a surprise round, since...
"...Some full-round actions can be taken as standard actions, but only in situations when you are limited to performing only a standard action during your round. The descriptions of specific actions detail which actions allow this option...."
...the feat doesn't "detail" itself as a specific action eligible to be taken as a standard action in a situation where you are limited to performing only a standard. --This means that it might not be until the enemy's third turn (if they rolled higher initiative) that you could pop off a few readies with Overwatch Style.
* If you snag Overwatch Style at low-level with MoMS monk or Unarmed fighter (or some such w/sans prerequisites acquisition), then you don't have Rapid Shot itself for use during the combat.
Realistically you'd only use Overwatch in corner-case situations, such as fights with Vanish-spamming opponents, or stealth types darting back into hiding after their actions. It's not something you'll use every day, or even every week.
Not to suggest overwatch style is good or what you’re looking for... but you seem to have a bit of a misconception about it... while it may not be usable in the surprise round, it is fully functional in round 1. It is only a Swift action to activate a style stance, and you can still use swift actions in the same turn that you use a full round action. Which means that you can swift action into the style stance then full round action ready the two attacks on round 1.
Of course the feat is only good for situational circumstances like you mentioned, or as an early level snag if you can ignore prerequisites... since under normal circumstances you’re better off just getting rapid shot and using a full attack... mid-late game its usefulness falls off almost entirely as well, though Overwatch Tactician and Overwatch Vortex do make it a little more appealing at later levels if you find yourself readying attacks frequently... though still objectively worse than just full attacking with Rapid Shot...
<nod>
I'm used to playing rogues and other sneaky types; what is a "1st round" for other PCs is often the second round for me, after the surprise. If the monsters win initiative, then they'll go before some PCs in both the surprise round and the first round, and only then would Overwatch's readies become active...
"...The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun....
...when it could now be the third round of combat for the monsters who won initiative. A common ready trigger is, "When I see an enemy"; well, invisibility or stealth, et al, might not break until an attack is made, and a readied action isn't an immediate action, so the monster's swing will land first, then he'll pop into view, and then the PC finally gets to enjoy his Overwatch if he's still alive after being beaten in the head in what could be the third round of combat from the monsters' perspective.
And once a PC is past 3rd or 4th, they usually have gear or spells available for standard-action use should they find themselves lacking a viable attack-action during an incomplete encounter, thereby obviating the action-economy of anything requiring a full-round action. Likewise, the PCs may feel compelled to use a move-action.
Overwatch Style is one of those fiddly fussbudget feats that looks great at first glance, but steadily shrinks under the magnifying glass. If your GM is the sort who likes to keep the party "in initiative order" during many-square-room dungeon-crawls, go for it as the guy-on-watch while everyone else loots the recently-deceased before crashing the next door. Otherwise, I'd give it a pass. In a game with hundreds of feats, there's much better stuff out there.
You're being really weird about this.
* You cannot activate a style before combat begins (and Overwatch Style does not exempt itself from this).
Yes?
* Overwatch Style cannot be activated during a surprise round, since..."...Some full-round actions can be taken as standard actions, but only in situations when you are limited to performing only a standard action during your round. The descriptions of specific actions detail which actions allow this option...."...the feat doesn't "detail" itself as a specific action eligible to be taken as a standard action in a situation where you are limited to performing only a standard. --This means that it might not be until the enemy's third turn (if they rolled higher initiative) that you could pop off a few readies with Overwatch Style.
Overwatch Tactician solves that, but isn't your perceived problem true for any feat that depends on a full-attack action? Like yeah, it requires a full-round action. So does Rapid Shot.
* If you snag Overwatch Style at low-level with MoMS monk or Unarmed fighter (or some such w/sans prerequisites acquisition), then you don't have Rapid Shot itself for use during the combat.
No? But you can still ready two attacks per turn. So a 3/4 BAB character that doesn't have early access to Haste would have the exact same number of attacks until their 8th level.
...when it could now be the third round of combat for the monsters who won initiative. A common ready trigger is, "When I see an enemy"
Or you just ready two attacks for "when I end my turn" and get them at your initiative phase in round 2.
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I mentioned it as an alternative to taking rapid shot for a low-level endeavor. You get your two attacks per round, same as if you took rapid shot, until a certain level. Considering that you had no problem with dips and are avoiding PBS which is a prerequisite for pretty much all high-level feats I thought it was worth bringing up.
Overwatch Tactician solves that, but isn't your perceived problem true for any feat that depends on a full-attack action? Like yeah, it requires a full-round action. So does Rapid Shot.
Rapid Shot I can get at 2nd-level with maybe three or four dozen different class/archetype combos. Overwatch Tactician does not appear to be obtainable at 2nd-level via any means (i.e., MoMS monk won't work because OT is ineligible for his 2nd-level slot). Rapid Shot doesn't limit your full-attack to two attacks, so it can scale. Overwatch Style & Tactician do not scale.
So, while OT is clearly the more decent feat you'd really want (instead of the full-round-saddled OS) after sucking down three tax-feats in non-monk builds, Overwatch Tactician is still not the equal of Rapid Shot gained normally for general purposes, or specifically in the context of my expressed desire for a compressed level-stack in a multiclass build.
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Are we all in agreement, then, that no archetype in the game offers Rapid Shot at first class level? I perceive that to be the consensus, at least for Paizo classes. 3rd-party material I haven't examined, but I dimly recall seeing something once upon a time, and that vague recollection might have prompted this thread, now that I think about it.
You can get Rapid Shot without prereqs or you can get it at first.
Not both.
If you're going for a roguish sort of thing, I'd consider Slayer. Maybe Sniper slayer even.
I have to assume this a build for bab under 6 and I'm gonna guess... Inquisitor, so looks like you'll have to pay the tax.
Short of being a bolt ace or an inquisitor you're also burning a feat on proficiency for the repeater xbow. The blowgun wouldn't have that issue, and seems to reload for free ? The cost, of course, being a significant damage difference. Still, could be interesting.
Of course, no PBS also means no Precise Shot and no Clustered Shot, among others.
Overwatch feels like an all-in commitment. It works quite well, but it's a big investment.
The closest I can think of is an eldritch archer magus, who could use spell combat to cast acid splash and shoot their ranged weapon in one action. It'd take until second level to get ranged spellstrike and so get a second attack with their weapon tho'.
Basically no, not with an arbitrary weapon and only one level and no prereqs or feat taxes, all at once.