Teleportation Circle+Permanency but they are scrolls.


Rules Questions


If I'm a wizard with a CL of 10 can I cast the spell <Teleportation Circle> and then cast <Permanency> on it assuming both spells are cast from scrolls made by a different wizard of CL 17+?

Or do I need to be a wizard with a CL of 17+?


If the 2 scrolls are made at a caster level of 17 (not required for permanency; the 17th level wizard could have made it at a caster level of as low as 9, though it would need to be made at CL 17 to affect teleportation circle) then your CL 10 wizard will need to make a caster level check DC 18 in order to use each scroll successfully.

Quote:
...her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a scroll mishap. A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

You don't need to be a wizard with CL 17+, but it does avoid losing a lot of money on scrolls which may blow up in your face.

Edit: if the question's whether the scrolls could work at all then yes they could. In most cases (and there's no reason I can think of why this would be an exception, there's no feats or other personal abilities involved) then casting spells from scrolls is the same as a spellcaster of the scroll's caster level casting those spells directly.


avr wrote:

If the 2 scrolls are made at a caster level of 17 (not required for permanency; the 17th level wizard could have made it at a caster level of as low as 9, though it would need to be made at CL 17 to affect teleportation circle) then your CL 10 wizard will need to make a caster level check DC 18 in order to use each scroll successfully.

Quote:
...her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a scroll mishap. A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

You don't need to be a wizard with CL 17+, but it does avoid losing a lot of money on scrolls which may blow up in your face.

Edit: if the question's whether the scrolls could work at all then yes they could. In most cases (and there's no reason I can think of why this would be an exception, there's no feats or other personal abilities involved) then casting spells from scrolls is the same as a spellcaster of the scroll's caster level casting those spells directly.

Thank you. I just needed to confirm that I could do it using scrolls made by a higher level wizard. Or rather I would be able to make a permanent teleportation circle without actually having a CL of 17.

Granted it's not ideal but I've stranded some NPCs off some 3000 miles away and gone and lost the artifact we used to teleport back and forth from that location. So it's nice to know I can correct that. Maybe.

I hate to add another question here but the price rules for scrolls states as follows:

"If the scroll has a material component cost, it is added to the base price and cost to create."

So a scroll of permanency made for Teleportation Circle would have 22,500 gp added to it's base cost making the total 24625. And if that were to be crafted it would be cut it in half would it not?

I might have to make a new thread for this.


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It's just the CL * Spell level * 25 gp which gets cut in half by crafting, the material component has to be provided in full.

You actually provided the relevant quote there, the material component cost gets added to the base price and to the cost to create.


Also - in case you're not aware, you can't make scrolls with a higher CL than your own. You will need a wizard 17 or similar involved at some point.


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It would be cheaper to just hire a Wizard to cast the spells.

Price of scrolls: Spell Level * Caster Level * 25 gp

Price of spellcaster: Spell Level * Caster Level * 10 gp


avr wrote:

It's just the CL * Spell level * 25 gp which gets cut in half by crafting, the material component has to be provided in full.

You actually provided the relevant quote there, the material component cost gets added to the base price and to the cost to create.

Good to have that cleared up. I asked because I was making a Teleportation Circle Scroll on Hero Lab. It included the 1,000gp in the base cost putting it at 4,825gp. It then split that in half making it 2912.5gp.

So I was confused as that's never how it's worked before. Another fun note is that it gives no additions to the permanency scroll when I attempt to make it. This is bug report for Hero Lab not Paizo I just thought I'd explain myself.

As far as making the scrolls I am aware I can't do it with a CL of 10. However due to circumstances of the campaign we are running the party does have access to a wizard who can make them. Though that may not matter as the expenditure is still to high. Going to have to beg the Government for a favor and my diplomacy skill leaves a lot to be desired.

EDIT: Upon reflection that scroll calculation seems to be correct. Still no additions for the permanency spell however. Oh well.


OmniMage wrote:

It would be cheaper to just hire a Wizard to cast the spells.

Price of scrolls: Spell Level * Caster Level * 25 gp

Price of spellcaster: Spell Level * Caster Level * 10 gp

Do you happen to have the book/chapter that is found in. I've never actually paid another wizard to cast a spell. So I guess I never paid any attention to it as an option.


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Hiring spell casters is covered in the equipment chapter. See core rulebook p. 159 and 163.


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Keep in mind the teleportation circle is one way. If you need two-way travel between locations using Create Demi-plane spells would be a cheaper, more efficient method (vs 2 permanent teleportation circles). As you can use multiple castings to create an extra-planar bridge between two locations.

Step 1. Cast Create Demiplane lesser
Step 2. Make it permanent for 17,500gp
Step 3. Cast Create Demiplane Greater to create a permanent portal between point A and the plane.
Step 4. Cast Create Demiplane Greater to create a permanent portal between point B and the plane.

Strictly speaking the create demi-plane spells also don't have any sort of caster level requirement when it comes to permanency, but based on the pricing they should probably be 15th, 16th and 17th. Even so, since you only need to make the lesser version permanent you only need to be 15th level instead of 17th.


LordKailas wrote:

Keep in mind the teleportation circle is one way. If you need two-way travel between locations using Create Demi-plane spells would be a cheaper, more efficient method (vs 2 permanent teleportation circles). As you can use multiple castings to create an extra-planar bridge between two locations.

Step 1. Cast Create Demiplane lesser
Step 2. Make it permanent for 17,500gp
Step 3. Cast Create Demiplane Greater to create a permanent portal between point A and the plane.
Step 4. Cast Create Demiplane Greater to create a permanent portal between point B and the plane.

Strictly speaking the create demi-plane spells also don't have any sort of caster level requirement when it comes to permanency, but based on the pricing they should probably be 15th, 16th and 17th. Even so, since you only need to make the lesser version permanent you only need to be 15th level instead of 17th.

Thank you. This plan is incredible. It's a bit hilarious that bending reality to create your own world is cheaper than drawing circles on the ground. Oh magic how I love thee.


Spellcasting Services describes hiring a caster to cast spells.
Per Scrolls you see the cost of scrolls.
Per Teleportation Circle, it requires a 16th level summoner or a 17th level psychic, sorcerer, wizard, witch or a 17th level cleric with the rune domain. This leads to either 25*6*16+1000 gp or 25*9*17+1000 gp for the scroll of Teleportation Circle. This is the minimum CL for this spell. [cost halves the 25%SL*CL only.]
For the Permanency spell, the Permanency caster must be CL 17 and spend 22,500 gp. A scroll will be 25*5*17+22500 gp. [cost halves the 25%SL*CL only.]

As a CL10 wizard, you need to pass a DC 18 caster level check vs. your 10+1d20 roll. Twice. If you fail, you must then make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap. If you don't suffer a mishap, you can try the scroll again. If you get a mishap, the scroll is used and some other effect happens.

/cevah

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ezzard wrote:
LordKailas wrote:

Keep in mind the teleportation circle is one way. If you need two-way travel between locations using Create Demi-plane spells would be a cheaper, more efficient method (vs 2 permanent teleportation circles). As you can use multiple castings to create an extra-planar bridge between two locations.

Step 1. Cast Create Demiplane lesser
Step 2. Make it permanent for 17,500gp
Step 3. Cast Create Demiplane Greater to create a permanent portal between point A and the plane.
Step 4. Cast Create Demiplane Greater to create a permanent portal between point B and the plane.

Strictly speaking the create demi-plane spells also don't have any sort of caster level requirement when it comes to permanency, but based on the pricing they should probably be 15th, 16th and 17th. Even so, since you only need to make the lesser version permanent you only need to be 15th level instead of 17th.

Thank you. This plan is incredible. It's a bit hilarious that bending reality to create your own world is cheaper than drawing circles on the ground. Oh magic how I love thee.

Demiplanes can be invaded, a circle can't.

The circle can be used as a trap, not only a teleportation device.
The circle can be targeted to a location you have never visited but of which you have a reliable description and of which you know the location, the portal only if the target location is "very familiar", and that doesn't mean having visited the location a few times, that, at best, fall under "studied carefully".
So, while some shenanigans can cost less, generally there are differences that can explain why.

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