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The rules for XP rewards can be found here:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=572
For combats each party member gets the default encounter XP budget as XP reward. So if your party is level 3 and wins a moderate encounter, each member gets 80XP, regardless of party size (You only modify the budget due to party size for encounter building, not for reward).
If your party is a different level than the target level of the encounter, modify the serverity a step up or down. So if the encounter is written as "Moderate 3" and your party is still level 2, it would be "Severe" for them and each party member gets 120XP (instead of 80XP for level 3) as reward.
The rules for XP rewards can be found here:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=572For combats each party member gets the default encounter XP budget as XP reward. So if your party is level 3 and wins a moderate encounter, each member gets 80XP, regardless of party size (You only modify the budget due to party size for encounter building, not for reward).
If your party is a different level than the target level of the encounter, modify the serverity a step up or down. So if the encounter is written as "Moderate 3" and your party is still level 2, it would be "Severe" for them and each party member gets 120XP (instead of 80XP for level 3) as reward.
Ok i can see where you're coming from there. but I still don't see anything about the "target level" for the encounter in the link u sent. And in Fall of Plaguestone there are a couple of Severe 3 Encounters towards the end. It's less of an issue for my lvl 2 party but how does that work for a lvl 1 party?
If a lvl 1 party (somehow) beats a Severe 3 encounter, does the EXP cap out at Extreme (160xp), even though the "target level" would technically push it one step beyond extreme?
Your party should hit level 4 by the end of plaguestone. So, they should be level 3 when they start running into severe 3 encounters.
Remember, the XP reward is per player, not divided among the number of players.
The rules for XP rewards can be found here:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=572For combats each party member gets the default encounter XP budget as XP reward. So if your party is level 3 and wins a moderate encounter, each member gets 80XP, regardless of party size (You only modify the budget due to party size for encounter building, not for reward).
If your party is a different level than the target level of the encounter, modify the serverity a step up or down. So if the encounter is written as "Moderate 3" and your party is still level 2, it would be "Severe" for them and each party member gets 120XP (instead of 80XP for level 3) as reward.
The xp is given not for the Moderate Encounter but for each creature in that encounter originally, not count additions due to party size:
"Encounters with adversaries and hazards grant a set amount of XP. When the group overcomes an encounter with creatures or hazards, each character gains XP equal to the total XP of the creatures and hazards in the encounter (this excludes XP adjustments for different party sizes; see Party Size on page 508 for details)."
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The rules for XP rewards can be found here:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=572For combats each party member gets the default encounter XP budget as XP reward. So if your party is level 3 and wins a moderate encounter, each member gets 80XP, regardless of party size (You only modify the budget due to party size for encounter building, not for reward).
If your party is a different level than the target level of the encounter, modify the serverity a step up or down. So if the encounter is written as "Moderate 3" and your party is still level 2, it would be "Severe" for them and each party member gets 120XP (instead of 80XP for level 3) as reward.
The xp is given not for the Moderate Encounter but for each creature in that encounter originally, not count additions due to party size:
"Encounters with adversaries and hazards grant a set amount of XP. When the group overcomes an encounter with creatures or hazards, each character gains XP equal to the total XP of the creatures and hazards in the encounter (this excludes XP adjustments for different party sizes; see Party Size on page 508 for details)."
Ah thanks, you are right! I read the text from the chapter before that "When the PCs face direct opposition, such as a fight or a social conflict, the XP earned is based on the level of the challenge the party overcame." and thought the XP was based on the encounter budget.
So it's per creature which also answers darktemplar45's question:
If a lvl 1 party (somehow) beats a Severe 3 encounter, does the EXP cap out at Extreme (160xp), even though the "target level" would technically push it one step beyond extreme?
The party would gain XP for each creature. And for creatures, the XP reward is given for level-4 to level+4 which should be enough range.
XP rewards are a little complicated in PF2 because the way they are stated as working requires that even if a GM knows their campaign is going to be played by 6 players, the experience value of an encounter requires building that encounter for 4 players - whatever creatures would be in that version of the encounter, total up their XP value which is relative to the characters' level when they face it, and give that to each player in total, not divided - then adjust the encounter for 6 players.
Thinking of it that way makes it harder than it needs to be. In reality you choose a difficulty for the encounter and level you expect them to fight it at.
That gives the exp amount to award. Adjustments for encounter budget never have to be written down. Especially as it is always a quarter more per player.
I currently run 5 and 6 member parties and it takes no effort for me to build encounters for them budget wise. And distributing exp is as easy as knowing how much a difficulty category gives.
The way it is annotated in APs is due to the fact that the XP value of a given encounter would change based on party level. The AP expects your party level to match what they wrote down so it's easy if that's the case, you can just use the chart showing XP values per encounter.
If your party level is too high or low, it gets tricky. The most precise way to calculate XP in those cases is to disregard the label like "Severe 3" and calculate the XP manually based on the monsters present and their XP values related to the players actual level.
However, if we do a few examples, we can see that we can apply a general rule here. Usually the party being one level too high shifts the encounter difficulty down a step (severe 3 becomes moderate 4), and being one level too low shifts the difficulty up one step (severe 3 becomes extreme 2). The math works out well most times, though multiples of 3 enemies seem to throw it off a bit, but when it's off it's only by 5 or 10 XP most times, so it's a fine rule of thumb to help you with your situation.
I hope my explanation is helpful!
Thinking of it that way makes it harder than it needs to be. In reality you choose a difficulty for the encounter and level you expect them to fight it at.
That gives the exp amount to award. Adjustments for encounter budget never have to be written down. Especially as it is always a quarter more per player.
I currently run 5 and 6 member parties and it takes no effort for me to build encounters for them budget wise. And distributing exp is as easy as knowing how much a difficulty category gives.
The other part of my post you quoted is basically the same thing you just said to me. It isn't, however, how the book actually states that this whole thing works. I'll use an example to illustrate:
I'm setting up a campaign for my 6 players. I have an encounter that I want to be a Moderate threat for their level, so I take my 120 XP budget and start to spend it: I pick out creatures for the encounter that happen to 1 level lower than the party, so each is worth 30 XP. I put 4 in the encounter, and I'm good to go.
I of course can reward each character 80 XP for overcoming this threat and call that "close enough" - but if I follow the exact process laid out by the book, I've got "...each character gains XP equal to the total XP of the creatures and hazards in the encounter (this excludes XP adjustments for different party sizes)" to work with.
So if I scale the encounter to 4 players, the budget is 80 XP, so the closes these particular creatures would get to the budget is if there were 3 of them - and that means this encounter is worth 90 XP for each character, rather than 80 XP.
While that's not a big deal if it happens rarely and/or is balanced by some encounters being under-budget but still giving full budget XP, I figure it would be dissatisfying to a not insignificant number of players if they found out they were not getting what the game says they should be.
So, you lost me a bit here. Whether it is 6 players or 3 they get 80 xp each in this example according to the book. they would just fight more or fewer enemies if you are making your own encounter.
I had some issue with this when I first got that adventure as well. There are a few threads in the 'adventure' section as well some gm info if you are running it here in the 'adventures' section of the forums.
A so the 1 is the level for which the encounter is 'low'. Since all encounters are based on party level now. So if it is low 1 and your party is level 2 it would drop to 'trivial' as I understand it.
B As far as I can tell for combat encounters that xp is the encounter xp. All other xp appears to be listed in the AP, avoiding traps, talking people out of something instead of combat etc.
I'd definitely take a jot over to the https://paizo.com/community/forums/pathfinder/adventures section to see what people have already gone over. If you get to playing or finishing this adventure please remember to let us know what you thought and how things went!
The other part of my post you quoted is basically the same thing you just said to me. It isn't, however, how the book actually states that this whole thing works.
What I said is entirely by the book as long as you don't go over or under the budget. I wasn't arguing that you were doing it wrong, just saying that your explanation makes it seem more convoluted than it is (especially since this is a thread for a person who was struggling with it).
I'll use an example to illustrate: I'm setting up a campaign for my 6 players. I have an encounter that I want to be a Moderate threat for their level, so I take my 120 XP budget and start to spend it: I pick out creatures for the encounter that happen to 1 level lower than the party, so each is worth 30 XP. I put 4 in the encounter, and I'm good to go.
I of course can reward each character 80 XP for overcoming this threat and call that "close enough" - but if I follow the exact process laid out by the book, I've got "...each character gains XP equal to the total XP of the creatures and hazards in the encounter (this excludes XP adjustments for different party sizes)" to work with.
So if I scale the encounter to 4 players, the budget is 80 XP, so the closes these particular creatures would get to the budget is if there were 3 of them - and that means this encounter is worth 90 XP for each character, rather than 80 XP.
The issue with this example is that your adjusted four person encounter would be over budget for moderate as well. Balancing for difficulty is going to give a more consistent reward experience and something I will direct GMs to doing, especially if they are confused as to how to do it.
"Note that if you adjust your XP budget to account for party size, the XP awards for the encounter don’t change—you’ll always award the amount of XP listed for a group of four characters."
This is the part I believe you are referencing, I present the argument that it says nothing about the number of foes. Difficulty awards apply just as accurately :).
This is to say, your way of approaching it can be correct but as written there is nothing to suggest my way is not RAW. :D
Each enemy at the same level as your party is 40 XP. So if there are 12 that would be 480 XP, or 3x the value for an extreme level encounter. In other words, do not send this encounter at a group of level 1's and expect them to win, they should run if they want any chance of surviving.
Incidentally this proposed encounter may not be that severe since zombies have obvious weaknesses that are easy to exploit, namely that they're slow (don't know what akatas are). As long as the party can stay out of melee they might be able to whittle them down over many, many rounds. But if they try to stand their ground they will die.
I have set the encounter up where there is environmental advantages the players can use. Using those the players could eliminate 3 or 4 at once. Ex: a 5 gallon barrel of lamp oil and a pit.
1. They have 50 HP each, so that barrel will need to do a lot of damage. Unless you just handwaive it as auto-killing, which is fine.
2. Even after that you have 6-7 zombies and 2 akatas, which is still a totally lethal fight to take head on. A typical first level character is going to do less than 10 damage per hit (unless you have an all barbarian team or something), so you'll need more than 5 hits per zombie, or around 30+ successful attacks just to kill the zombies. In turn the zombies will hit about half the time, grabbing the character automatically and then biting them to death in a few rounds (with more than one zombie attacking the same character they could drop in the first round) .The numbers are balanced around your party fighting two or occasionally three level 1 enemies at a time, four level 1 enemies would be difficulty of a strong boss encounter (good chance one PC could die). They cannot win a straight fight against 12 of them without extreme fudging in their favor, the only thing not guaranteeing a TPK here is that the party can run away and the zombies are too slow to chase them. There is in fact a creature -1 variant of the zombie (called zombie shambler) which you could use instead, which won't have quite so much HP, if you really want a zombie swarm at level 1. That would change the fight to 280 XP, still a very good chance of TPK but at least winnable in the right circumstances.