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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 30 posts (31 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Organized Play characters.


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masda_gib wrote:

The rules for XP rewards can be found here:

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=572

For combats each party member gets the default encounter XP budget as XP reward. So if your party is level 3 and wins a moderate encounter, each member gets 80XP, regardless of party size (You only modify the budget due to party size for encounter building, not for reward).

If your party is a different level than the target level of the encounter, modify the serverity a step up or down. So if the encounter is written as "Moderate 3" and your party is still level 2, it would be "Severe" for them and each party member gets 120XP (instead of 80XP for level 3) as reward.

Ok i can see where you're coming from there. but I still don't see anything about the "target level" for the encounter in the link u sent. And in Fall of Plaguestone there are a couple of Severe 3 Encounters towards the end. It's less of an issue for my lvl 2 party but how does that work for a lvl 1 party?

If a lvl 1 party (somehow) beats a Severe 3 encounter, does the EXP cap out at Extreme (160xp), even though the "target level" would technically push it one step beyond extreme?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So i'm having this issue running Fall of Plaguestone. We have 5 party members And i am very confused on how much XP to give from encounters.

I'm aware that this adventure is designed for 1st level players and that you should be approximately level 2 when you finish it. But adding up all the XP rewards listed in the adventure only gets you roughly 800 ish XP. So my first thought was that it didn't include encounter experience...

Soooo how much to combat encounters give? And when an Encounter is listed as "Severe 2" or "Moderate 3" what does that actually mean? i know in the Encounter building section, "Low, Moderate, Severe" basically determines the encounter budget when you build the encounter. And the "creature xp and role Table" seems to mimic the adversary table in the XP Rewards section. But i don't see how the number following it is involved. my guess is that it's in reference to the adversary level for that encounter?

EX: If an encounter is listed "Low 1", does that mean it's a Low threat level with an adversary level of 1? And if a group of five lvl 1 PCs defeat the encounter how much XP do they get?

A) do they get just the encounter budget, regardless of the party level? 60 xp for a "low" encoutner?, then what's the "1" supposed to represent?

For reference these are the Threat level budgets on pg. 489:

Trivial - 40 or less
Low - 60
Moderate - 80
Severe - 120
Extreme - 160

B) Or do they get the total from each creature/hazard using the the Adversary Table listed in the EXP Rewards section? And if so why isn't that total listed in the encounter rewards? Most combat encounters in FoPS don't even have a rewards section unless there's treasure involved.

Adversary Table on pg. 508):

Party level – 4|10 XP
Party level – 3|15 XP
Party level – 2|20 XP
Party level – 1|30 XP
Party level == |40 XP
Party level + 1|60 XP
Party level + 2|80 XP
Party level + 3|120 XP
Party level + 4|160 XP

C) is it a combination of both? Is the Threat level the "base" EXP, then the number indicating the adversary level of the Encoutner? Meaning "Low 1" should indicate 100 EXP, 60 for a "Low" threat, then 40 for an adversary level of the same as the party level? (according to Adversary Level Table)

or in a different example (this happened in a session earlier today) a Severe 3 for a second lvl party would be 120(severe)+60(Partylvl+1), 180 exp? if this is correct my party might even end up lvl 3 by time the adventure is over x.x

D) Do I still split the XP 5 ways? Assuming a option C is correct then a Low 1 (100 xp) encounter nets the PC's only 20 XP? that seems really low.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Wow i was REALLY hoping for a wording fix on Animal Rage the 8th lvl Barbarian feat for Animal Instinct. I keep finding conflicting information on what the feat actually does (other than the novelty of transforming into an animal). the feat specifies it's a 3rd level Animal Form you use your own "statistics", Temps and Unarmed attacks. but it's not clearly defined what those "statistics" are.

So far the best i can find is that you get Low-light vision (if u didn't already have it) and the speed adjustment from the specific animal you transformed into (which in many cases is the same or marginally better than your base speed). If this is accurate then it seems like a terrible 8th lvl feat.

So that's something i'd really like clarification on. And as an extension of that the Magic Warrior focus spell "Magic Warrior Aspect" in the Lost Omens World guild uses different wording for a similar feature. Is that the intended use for Animal Rage?

Aside from that minor grip I'm glad we got some major editing/format issues resolved. i know almost 700 pages is a lot but hopefully we iron out as many as we can as quickly as we can.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

TLDR; running Signal of Screams. I have a PC with a prodigy younger brother, they're both really good to each other, but they're in their cursed and the brother has since been separated from the party. The other players have all had their moments in the AP, "reuniting" with their close friends/family. But I need an interesting encounter to act as their "reunion". However it's the end of the AP and I'm drawing in blank

So set up for this question. I'm running a online game (roll20) of the Signal of Screams AP. It's taken us 8 months but we're finally in the home stretch of the AP and we're playing our FINAL SESSION tomorrow (thursday night). Without getting into spoilers, i decided to add a little personal flair for each of my PC's.

I should also mention that at the beginning of this AP the Character Operations Manual Playtest had just started, so i allowed my PC's to use the content from that playtest to add a few extra options in terms of character creation.

During the AP hook, where the party gets invited to new luxury resort in the beginning of the adventure, i told each of the player's that they could each invite a "plus 1" to extend their invitation to include a close friend or family member. This was a glorious idea as each of the PC's "plus 1's" became integral plot devices through out the AP. Among these Companions were a Yandere waifu Dragonkin, a techno-dropout Witchwarper, ysoki Biohacker, and a Nuar (minotaur) Gladiator (which later became that player's PC because his previous one died).

Now fast forward to today. Most of the party has been separated from their companions and in these last few sessions they've been "reunited" with many of their companions through various means. I wanted to each PC to have 1 encounter dedicated to this "reunion". Some of their companions here raised as undead and the PC had to put them down, other's were "corrupted" through Modify Memory and similar mechanics/plot. And in one case my Shirren Operative (whom had ties to the Corperation involved with the AP) discovered his dead female mate, used the last bit of her life essence to save their unborn larva while it was still in it's Host Container.

But here's my problem. I have one PC (ysoki Mechanic), who's companion is his younger brother (ysoki Biohacker). I haven't had the time/patience to build a 13th level sheet/statblock for his brother and i've got a real case of creative writer's block for his "reunion" encounter.

So far i've done:

- Minotaur Vanguard killed her undead and deformed father (whom was previously the famous gladiator "Charon the Charger" and inspired the PC to become one themselves).
- Shirren Operative obtained a host container with his offspring inside (plot twist they used a Host service that turned out to be a front in order to steal children/infants in order to be experimented on)
- a Vesk Soldier who finally came to terms with his emotions and confessed his love for his yandere waifu Dragonkin to break her free of her modify memory condition. (which was hilarious and tear jerking)
- And i have another encounter in mind for my Android Envoy Player that involves the Witchwarper that was killed earlier in the adventure. Basically imma pull a Deus Ex and bring her back, it's not the same witchwarper, it's a witchwarper from another parallel world.

I've asked this player several times what kind of relationship these ysoki brothers have. Frankly he hasn't given me a lot to work with. His PC is a Mechanic named Carl, with a Drone previously named "Junior"(get it?). Later his drone was remaned to "Jack in the Box" after he had a bad drivethru experience. But aside from the fast food joke, Carl is pretty bog standard from what you'd expect of a ysoki, rummages through scrap, doesn't shy away from the dirty jobs (but is still reluctant), occasionally tries to cheat while gambling (and fails), tries to outdrink the vesk (and fails).Just a scrapper with a record of mild criminal activities (pickpocketing, tresspassing, trying to make out with a ghost (don't ask) etc.) Nothing spectacular. To be fair if he's enjoying playing that type of character then that's great for him!

Here's the curveball. His Brother, named "Charboiled" (idk why, i just ran with it), is like a model citizen and is quote "better than Carl at everything". It' my understanding that his intention is for the younger brother (Charbroiled) to be a "favored/prodigy" child while the older brother (Carl) became the rebel acting out against everything. However he's also mentioned that Carl and Charbroiled have a pretty solid relationship as brothers. So what i'm taking away from this is that Carl was likely one of the few people that DIDN'T treat him like a prodigy child, and more like a brother. So his younger brother idolizes him quite dearly. I'm given basically no other context for why this is and equally so i've been given a great deal of creative freedom.

Warning Signal of Screams GM Soilers; but also relevant information:
So since we're in the third book that means the party is in the Shadow Plane. Everyone has been corrupted by the Shadow corruption at this point and the both Carl and Charbroiled have several manifestations. At one point i use the brother to deliver some plot relevant information and have him pass out. I did this to A. progress the plot because my players were being a bit slow that evening and B. show that the Shadow corruption is still progressing on their companions and a major threat.

now the PC's are in the final "dungeon" called the Shadow Labs where they will eventually face the final BBEG and cure themselves and companions of the Curse. A lot of these "reunion encounters" revolve around how the curse has affected the various companions. charbroiled was last seen unconcious on the shadow version of their ship, which is currently undefended (because of poor planning on my part)

Considering what i've done for my other players i really want this to be just as impact-full but i have a huge case of writer's block and can't think of anything. In addition to that, i've given all the other player's some kinda of boon or item of personal significance (Shirren found his lost unborn offspring in a Host Container, Vesk got a Partner-bonded Dragonkin Mystic, Nuar got the satisfaction of defeating her father in combat.. bear-handed...). the best i've got is that the younger brother finally turns into a a mirror image of Carl (since it seems like he's always wanted to BE like him) and fights along side the BBEG. But that would basically require me to clone the PC's character sheet and just add an unnecessary combat/NPC. And i'm hesitant to just slap that on to the last encounter cause it would feel really tacted on and i'm already adding a lot of extra (unrelated) details to that encounter.

So i need some other ideas for a "reunion" encounter. Ideally i don't want to do the same thing twice, and i don't want to have it written in a predetermined fashion that Charbroiled dies, or he gives some kind of boon is otherwise useless during the final moments of the campaign.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I would really like to see Paizo clarify this, because if the Animal Form spell only gets senses, and Speed, then why didn't they juts say "you gain the effects of a 3rd level Animal Form Spell, except you only gain the senses (such as low light vision) and speed adjustments." but assuming that's true then that's a terrible 8th level feat to take. Aside from the novelty of literally transforming into a bear, there just isn't enough oomph in this feat

for the AC bonus the answer took some snooping around, but i'm pretty sure you use your armors AC... The feat stats "you also retain the [u]constant[/u] abilities of your gear". It's my under standing that this implies "your gear morphs with you" kinda thing, which is why you would use your armors stats instead of the base.

From what i can tell the AC formula (and obviously the spell itself) is designed for casters with low Dex that are using the spell as normal. They can heighten the spell to 3rd level as early as Character level 5. And most classes(except monk) don't become expert in their respective armors until 13th level (unless a feat says otherwise, like Barbarian's Animal Skin (but that's a whole other argument)).

So for comparison's sake between a Barbarian and a typical caster such as a Sorcerer/Druid with the Primal spell List,(both assuming Trained in unarmored defense and a +3 dex) at 8th level they would have;

Animal Form/Rage: 25:
17 + 8 (Level)= 25
The biggest drawback here it that it don't get an item bonus to your AC or saves. Because of how potency runes work on Explorer's Clothing, they only "increase the item bonus" for the armor their etched into.

And before you mention Bracer's of Armor, it's still an item bonus, so it's not really clear if it applies or not. If Bracer's of Armor stack then your AC while in Animal Form/Rage it would be the same as capping dex with any other +1 Resilient light or medium armor (roughly +5 combined item/dex bonus, the and additional +1 from a potency rune). However this is great if you don't have +3 DEX and aren't proficient in Medium Armor!

The other Drawback unique to the Barbarian's Animal Rage is that this doesn't scale with any of your Defensive Proficiencies, as soon as you become expert in U.D. at 13th level your AC will always be 1 less compared to when you're not raging (which to be fair a -1 isn't that bad). But if you were a caster using the 5th level version of this spell you base AC would increase to 18 + level (18+13 = 31), It'd be on par with Expert in U.D. (at 10 + 17 (lvl+4) +4 Dex (assuming you boosted it at lvl 5/10)= 31). And that's not including my point about item bonuses mentioned above.

In my personal conclusion, the spell works as great for caster's cause it allows them to have a +5 item/dex bonus to AC where they don't have to spec heavily into DEX or where medium armor. But since DEX is rarely in issue in 2e, it loses it's flair. You could argue this formula would work with Low DEX barbarians but their Medium armor Prof is simply the superior option because of it's proficiency bonus and potency runes. Which is probably why "Barbarian AC would always be higher, so we'll count that as a "statistic" in terms of the feat."

+1 Resilient Explorer's Clothing/Bracers of Armor: 24:
10 (base) + 10 (U.D. Trained) + 3 Dex + 1 Item (w/+1 potency) = 24
(and you'd get +1 to saves with the Resilient rune)
You could use Bracers of Armor here but the bonuses are the same

+1 Resilient Studded Leather: 26:
10 (base) + 10 (Light Armor Trained) + 3 Dex + 3 Item (w/+1 potency) = 26
(and you'd get +1 to saves with the Resilient rune)

If you're a Druid, or Barbarian in this case, is in Hide Armor

+1 Resilient Hide Armor: 26:
10(Base) + 10(Medium Armor Trained) + 2 Dex + 4 Item (w/+1 potency) = 26
(and you'd get +1 to saves with the Resilient rune)

Even if you want to be a low dex barbarian and gold isn't an issue you could go for...

+1 Resilient Breastplate: 26:
10(Base) + 10(Medium Armor Trained) + 1 Dex + 5 Item (w/+1 potency) = 26
(and you'd get +1 to saves with the Resilient rune)

And as a bonus , if your goal was to crank the AC with Animal Instinct, here's an 8th lvl Barbarian with the 6th lvl Animal Skin feat (while raging) using Unarmored Defense with Explorer's Clothing again.

Animal Skin with +1 Resilient Explorer's Clothing: 27:
10 (base) + 12 (U.D. EXPERT) + 3 Dex + 1 Item (w/+1 potency) + 1 Status (Animal Skin)= 27
(and you'd STILL get +1 to saves with the Resilient Rune on Explorer's Clothing)

This build has it's own drawbacks where you only get the +1 Status bonus while raging. And at a glance a +1 AC with a dex cap of 3 just feels like Light armor, but the Expert in U.D. at lvl 6 is enough to make it function more like free +2 to AC. at 13th level Barbarians become expert in Unarmored defense (which is moot case you already have it thanks to animal skin), and you Status bonus increases to +2 (because you'll also get Greater Juggernaut). While your AC won't be on par with the Fight/Champion anymore (minus the shield), it'll still be one point shy.

From the math the spell would only have better AC if you didn't have magical gear (or gold to buy it) and your Dex is +2 or lower, or not +4 or higher if you're going to Unarmored Defense.

But in terms of "other statistics" I'm in the boat of "you gain the Low-light vision, scent and speed listed for your form" because otherwise there's literally no benefit of it being considering a 3rd level Animal form Spell.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

TY i figured i was over thinking it quite a bit, i guess the cloak is more of "flavor" item


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

TLDR; Do Hof MB work with Animal Instinct Barbarian unarmed strikes, and if so what's the point of the Berserker's Cloak? I'm basically trying to find a way to apply Potency Runes (at the very least) and Property Runes (at Best) to my Bestial Rage Unarmed Strikes. Or am I overthinking this and should i just shut up and use the handwraps?

Handwraps of Might Blows pg 611:
As you invest these embroidered strips of cloth, you must meditate and slowly wrap them around your hands. These handwraps have weapon runes etched into them to give your unarmed attacks the benefits of those runes, making your unarmed attacks work like magic weapons. For example, +1 striking handwraps of mighty blows would give you a +1 item bonus to attack rolls with your unarmed attacks and increase the damage of your unarmed attacks from one weapon die to two (normally 2d4 instead of 1d4, but if your fists have a different weapon damage die or you have other unarmed attacks, use two of that die size instead).

...[some details about the runes themselves]...

Property runes apply only when they would be applicable to the unarmed attack you’re using. For example, a property that must be applied to a slashing weapon wouldn’t function when you attacked with a fist, but you would gain its benefits if you attacked with a claw or some other slashing unarmed attack.

I first assumed they would work because all the animal instincts have the "Unarmed" Trait, and i don't really see a reason not to. I can tell the Handwraps were designed for Monks. But it doesn't say that it "doesn't" apply to other types of unarmed strikes. I guess they wanted it to be kinda broad to apply to all "fist, punch, kick" type unarmed attacks so it wasn't explicitly attached to the Monk. And there's also that last paragraph mentioning that certain property runes for certain types of weapons (such as slashing) need to be with a similar attack (claws in this case).

But then i found Berserker's Cloak on page 606. Which spells out exactly what i want to do with my Bestial Rage Unarmed Strikes. But it's 12th level item, and starts out with +2 Greater Striking. and the 19th lvl version being +3 Major Striking. I get that it's primary purpose is to give non Animal Instinct Barbarian characters access to similar attacks but 12th lvl seems awfully late to be getting an alternative weapon if u ever find yourself "unarmed". It just seems redundant if you have the Handwraps (assuming they work at all), and the Animal Instinct. It's almost like there needs to be a lvl 4 version that only works for A.I. Barbarians that gives them the +1 Striking. (even the crafting requirements need the crafter to be A.I. Barb)

Berserker's Cloak pg 606:

... If you have an animal instinct (see the barbarian on page 82) and the bestial rage instinct ability, instead of gaining these unarmed attacks, your unarmed attacks from the bestial rage instinct ability gain the benefits of a +2 weapon potency rune and a greater striking rune (granting a +2 item bonus to attack rolls and increasing the weapon damage dice by two).

If the Handwraps don't work with the Bestial Rage unarmed strikes, i'm ok with that with one caveat. If the A.I. Barb has to wait till 12th ish level to get the berserker's cloak, then how do they get the +1 Striking with Bestial Rage Unarmed Strikes?

And If the Handwraps DO work with the Bestial Rage Unarmed Strikes, then what's the point of the Berserker's Cloak? Especially considering you can't apply Property Runes to it, there's never a reason to get it.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Foeclan wrote:

For storage, I bought 3-ring binders and plastic page sleeves. When I need to find a pawn, I flip through the appropriate Bestiary binder to find it, pop it out of the cardboard backer, then when I'm done with it I just put it back where it came from (the page numbers printed on the pawn help with finding the right spot). Added bonus is that it fits on my bookshelf with everything else, though it does take up slightly more space than the box would. For the bases, I have some cases with little dividers in them that I got at a home improvement store and filled them up with the difference sizes of base. The rest I just leave in the original box, since I'm unlikely to need several dozen at a time.

Funny you should mention that actually! just today i came across a video from Black Magic Craft using the same method. i might give it a try!

Black Magic Craft Link


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Planpanther wrote:
Some sort of dividers for the box would be nice after punching all the pawns. I had a friend make me some with a 3D printer, but I know that not all folks have access to that.

i could see something like that working fairly easily, like if they just added one or two more sheets dedicated to slotting together as dividers. Not to mention that there's definitely room in the box for them.

Although i'm kinda jelly u got some 3D printed ones.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So i kinda just wanted to post something to see if there was any interest in this sort of thing. I'm a huge fan of the Pathfinder Pawn Boxes, mostly because i can't afford a ton of minis. But a couple hundred cardboard cut-outs, i can handle! And they work great with pretty much any other fantasy setting TTRPG. especially when i happen to have an EXACT representation of what i'm running on a given night. i'm also all aboard the 2nd Edition hype train.

So i was wondering about how much overlap there will be on a per box basis. For those that don't know, most of the boxes come with the pawns for all the entries in the corresponding book. Bestiary 1, Bestiary 2, codex of villians etc.

But the pawn boxes available today aren't without their flaws. I've seen most feedback stating that a lot of the art seems too dark on the white background (which i can agree with), and storage issues (making it difficult to find specific pawn unless you go out of your way to sort them in some fashion). So there's room for improvement.

I can totally see a refresh of new Pawn Boxes to go along with the 2E bestiaries and such becoming an inevitability. But like i said before my income is fairly limited so if/when PF 2E comes out with new pawn boxes i'm not too excited about buying another box of cardboard pawns to get a bunch monsters and such i likely already have, just with some minor improvements.

While I doubt they'd be a straight 1 to 1 conversion of the first bestiary it'd at least wouldn't make me feel like my pawns are outdated. And the boxes i have already are pretty varied, so i likely won't be buying any 2nd edition pawn boxes unless i feel there's been some substantial improvements to the newer boxes. To be fair, this will also depend on the quality of the art and materials of the 2E pawn sets too.

So what are some other improvements that you guys would like to see to the inevitable 2E Pawn Boxes to make buying a new/replacement set more viable than the using your 1st edition boxes?

The storage issue is frankly my biggest concern, i started out rubber banding bundles of pawns together and while this saved a lot of space, it made pulling out specific pawns difficult. Then i tried plastic baggies for my NPC Codex, separated by class, which worked well but the bags themselves along with the chaotic mess inside the box itself is defeats the purpose of saving space. For now i've kept my newer boxes in their cardboard runners. Making finding monsters a LITTLE easier because they aren't nessacarily in order and a usually grouped by the size of the pawn. And the added weight of the cardboard really adds up after 20+ sheets, per box. I've heard of some people using tackle boxes, much like they use for miniatures are a viable option but haven't had a chance to try it out yet. The Pawn bases themselves have been all thrown in another plastic bag collectively because they don't need to be sorted, but it still feels really cheap to pull out a gallon ziploc every time i need a base.

The other option is to just use the PDF's and print them out, which i haven't tried yet but i also have a cheapo printer and ink can be just as expensive depending on how much color the art itself has. So that's out.

Lastly, i'd love to see a better option for online games. I'm currently running a Starfinder game on roll20, and while the Alien Archive is available, i'd like the option just to buy just the token-pack from them instead of dropping 40 bucks for a book/PDF i already own. I'm also looking into fantasy grounds so at least i could get a discount to purchase the paizo content there. However, that would also require convincing my players to switch VTTs. And while that debate has it's own Pro's and Cons, it seems unlikely because we've been using roll20 for several years now and it' just what my players are use to.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

i'd love a short list of the scenarios that are inter-linked via meta-plot if u can provide one.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

so my group is still pretty new to Starfinder. And after a little player/gm shifting, by default I've become the new GM.

However I've always had trouble in the past GMing when it comes to coming up with new content for the players (especially on a weekly schedule). So I've offered the players the option to shift our homebrew campaign into variant of Starfinder Society games. They wouldn't all be structured as official Society games but at the very least I would feel more comfortable running those types scenarios than having to make up something that makes barely any sense.

I've also mentioned running an adventure path but I'm not sure how those are structured. I'd really like to run Dead Suns with the group but they're almost level 5 which means we'd have to start off at the second book at the very least. Would it be worth running books one and two? or could i have them start in book three and give them a TLDR of what happens in the previous parts?

Back to Scenarios for a sec, I've played and GM'd my fair share of Pathfinder Society games but I've never played Starfinder Society. So if possible i'd like some recommendations before investing into random scenarios.

Our party is currently level 4 and will be level 5 once I finish up the current arc we're on. From what I've gathered from the party's interests, they want a 50/50 mix of starship combat and normal combat. As well as a 50/50 mix of both magical and technological game mechanics (or tech that's so advanced it seems like magic, and visa versa, i.e. hybrid)

Party make up is as follows:
Android Envoy
Ysoki mechanic
Lashunta Mystic
Vesk Soldier
Human Soldier and
Shirren Operative

Any recommendations for which Scenarios are fun/easy to run? Or should i just pick up an Adventure Path? if so which book should i start with considering the Party's current level?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

ok i appreciate it. just wanted to double check.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So i have a very silly question that i'm sure is in the book, and probably somewhere obvious but i just can't seem to find it.

When do Weapons target EAC instead of KAC? I was under the impression that it depended on the damage type for the weapon, it if dealt Piercing Slashing or Bludgeoning, then it targeted KAC. Fire, Cold, Eletricity and Sonic Weapons however targeted EAC, but normally dealt slightly less damage.

I bring this up i have a Vesk Soldier (Blitz) in my game and he's using the Flame Doshko, and both he and i agree that it seems like he's hardly ever missing, which leads to him doing a SIGNIFICANT amount of damage more that everyone else.

His attack is only a +8 (+4 STR, +4 BAB cause they're lvl 4), and his damage is 1d8 + 9 (4 STR + 3 (Weapon spec.) + 2 (gear boost to add 1/2 his STR)). He takes a lot of Full Attacks too so he's often hitting twice for 2d8+18.

Does this seem right? or am I just not used to seeing so many flat dmg bonuses stack?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Pramxnim wrote:

Fist is just a specific Unarmed Attack with specific traits. Monsters also have Unarmed Attacks, and those have the Agile or Finesse trait as necessary, but not the Nonlethal trait.

Similarly, some of the Barbarian's Unarmed Strikes with the Animal Totem may have the Agile trait, but not the Finesse or Nonlethal traits.

Dang i was hoping some of them did. While STR and Con are important stats for a Barbarian, it makes sense not to make the Barbarian a Dex/Con class.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Another thing I noticed that I'm pretty sure is right about but it took some flipping through the book to point out.

The Animal Totems have listed Traits on page 55. Now it says they are Unarmed Strikes and some of them have the Agile Trait and some don't, but what I noticed missing was that there weren't any finesse properties.

Now under "Unarmed Attacks" on page 178 it says the following:

"Use the statistics for a fist even if you’re kicking,
kneeing, or attacking with another part of your body.
Some ancestry feats, class features, class feats, and spells
give access to special, more powerful unarmed attacks."

I look at "Fist" on the table, low and behold the, Finesse, Agile, Nonlethal, and Unarmed Properties.

So this technically means that all of the Animal Totems can be used with the Finesse Trait, Right? Same goes with the Non-Lethal Trait?

If so they should've added though traits to the Animal Totem's Table.

IF NOT HOWEVER, then they really should add some of "non-lethal" and "finesse" properties, to some of the Animal Totems. That could be one way to differentiate the animals. Like maybe the the Frog (the only attack that deals Bludgeoning) can be Non-lethal, but the Cat can have Finesse to their Claw Attacks.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
PhoenixSlayer wrote:
Edge93 wrote:

Okay, so I didn't look over the entirety of this post yet though it looks pretty interesting, I like the ideas of the specific animal totems being a little more unique, I just wanted to address the first major problem real quick:

There's actually an item called the Handwraps of Mighty Strikes. It's a hand worn item (it's invested so it'll run you 1 RP each day) that provides the effects of higher weapon quality and/or Potency tunes to your unarmed blows. It even can have property runes. So it's functionally identical to a magic weapon for unarmed.

I was really confused at first too with the Animal Totem, thinking how in hell do they keep up in damage, but yeah, you're definitely meant to use handwraps like a monk. I believe they still function even when you shift to animal form.

Wow i can't beleive i didn't see that. thanks a lot, i still think the class feats for the totem need to be reworked but at least you're not committed to them like u are your Totem. Thanks for the Info!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So the when I first saw the animal totem options and how they give you unarmed attacks that have similar damage die to other types weapons, I was genuinely excited to try it out. I'm not exactly an expert in barbarians, but I really like this concept of letting your animal instinct take over and gaining primal features that are as devastating as some of the other options. Problem is, the Animal Totem ISN'T devastating at all...

So here's some questions I have about the class features to see if there's anything I missed. So please correct me if I misread something. I'm also going to include a few options on how I'd fix them if I were a GMnig this. As well as talk about the Animal Totem's Class feats. I know you don't HAVE to pick them but I still wanted to address some issues I've noticed.

I know I might sound like I'm really ripping into this, but i genuinely excited to play this type of character. And I just feel strongly that the way Paizo has these features laid out isn't very functional and this is my feedback on the Playtest. So I apologize if it comes off as really angry dissatisfaction, cause that's not my intention with this post.

1) The animal Totem Damages Dice seem on par with other weapons, makes sense. But you can't upgrade or make them magical items like other weapons? Wouldn't that make them under powered at higher levels?

So while some of the animal options might seem interesting at first glance when you take a good look at it, there's very little variety. Most of the options give some kind of a bite attack, with 1d10 damage, this is comparable to many two-handed weapons on the weapons table. But you don't have any way to add damage at later levels, because the damage doesn't scale as your level or anything.

So when the party reaches level 6ish, the rest of the party will have enough gold to upgrade their gear and +1 weapons (unless they found something along the way during an adventure). But the Animal Totem Barbarian can't use weapons (it's their Anathema); meaning his damage will remain at 1d10 while most other classes might be doing 2d6, 2d8, or even up to 2d12 with +1 weapons. And that's not even accounting for magic properties! And the problems don't stop there! You only get the Totems Unarmed attacks when your raging, so if you're not raging you still can't use weapons! You have ZERO ranged attacks/options! And as someone that likes to make sure all my characters have some kind of ranged attack this is just infuriating...

My solution to this would be to make something kinda like a holy symbol. I would say you could use the Totem itself but then it would conflict with the other Non-Animal Totem barbarians. So Something like a Charm, and give it a similar silver price as a two-handed weapon. With the ability to upgrade it's quality and fit Potency and Property Runes like any other weapons. This whay when you Rage, your animal features manifest and gain the potency and properties you've inserted into your Charm. You could even have multiple Charms for multiple animals, giving you access to maybe certain abilities like Pounce, Bear Hug and such that the Animal Companions have.

By the way I know there's at least one other Post that points out that the Animal Companion's Abilities would make a great addition to the Animal Totems. so I'm not going into depth here.

2) Aside form Damage Dice and Damage Types, whats the major difference between choosing different animals as your Totem?

Frankly not a lot as far as I can tell... The Animal Totem Class Feats are clearly designed to be a "one-size-fits-all" formula. The Animal Skin Feat bolsters your AC and and Dex cap, but it's the same bonus regardless of your animal Totem. And you can't be wearing any armor (save for some select few magical items), which means you better have a high DEX, too bad all the animals available don't come with the Finesse property... not even the some that make sense like the Cat. EDIT: Apparently "Unarmed Strikes", come with the Finesse Property. not sure if that applys to the unarmed strikes from the Animal Totem.

Animal Rage seems like it could have it's uses, but remember it's when your RAGING. You're technically not intended to be used for the utility and movement outside of combat, although there's nothing stopping you from doing that...

And lastly the only other Animal Totem Specific Feat is Predators Pounce. Which, like Animal Skin, has the same affect regardless of your chosen Animal Totem. (more on that later)

3) Can you shift into different forms? like use Bear for combat but Frog if you're in a watery/swampy area?

The short answer is technically no. No idea why this cant be a thing. This turns the Barbarian into a raging Shifter or Hunter from PF First Edition, but to be fair isn't that the approach they're going for with this Totem? Technically there's nothing I could find that says you can't shift into different forms, which is could be really helpful with the 8th level Animal Rage feat.

But the way it's worded, it seems like you carry one Totem of a specific animal you are spiritually connected to. Going back to what I said about Charms, if you could treat them like rare magical items the barbarian has to collect. Maybe you start out with a Cat Totem Charm cause your clan lived in the Savannah. But when you get to the mountains you want something with a climb speed, go find a Tribe that worships Snakes, or Apes. (or maybe homerule a Ram?, why isn't a Ram a thing?) But there are so many other ways to accomplish the same thing it wouldn't be worth it.

Speaking of Animal Totem Feats, they are, shall we say, lack luster.

The fact that the Animal Skin feat means you can't wear armor is SUPPOSED to further emphasize CON and DEX in your character, but without any "Finesse" property Animal Totems, you either take a hit in damage to be half as durable as you were with armor, or you fight over the Bracers of Armor with your way squshier spell casters. a +1 Bonus AC and a DEX cap of +4 is literally WORSE than the LIGHTEST of armor you can get. Padded Armor give a +1 AC and a max Dex of +5. So even if you stack you Dex really high, you're better off wearing literal paper armor.

Why not just gain the hide/fur as a constant feature, giving similar stats to well, Hide Armor? And point out that you can rest in the armor with out any discomfort (because it's part of your body now). (oh and you definitely can't wear other type of armor to avoid stacking item bonus's to AC.) It be a really niche thing, but it'd further emphasize your animal totem by slowly altering you appearance to match your totem, that and you could rest "in your armor" so at least your prepared for night ambushes. I don't know how else to make this feat seem interesting with out making it "natural armor" which both Wizards of the Coast and Paizo seem to want to avoid stacking too many bonus's to AC.

Animal Rage, is the feat I have the least concerns about. Losing you armor Check Penalty, gaining low light vision (if u didn't have it already), are nice to have but not all really worth a feat if it's only when you're raging. Again it's assumed you're locked into you chosen animal totem but you can transform into specific animals of the same type. (Lion or Leopard for Cat Totem). OK, again, why not other Totems? I mean the only real difference in the type of Animal Totem's available is how they deal damage, their Movement speed and senses given with this specific feat. I know it's kinda niche, but having access to a climb or swim speed could add a lot of utility to this feat, even if you have to be raging to use it. Missed Opportunity.

Lastly, Predators Pounce as a 12th level feat? Are you kidding me? This should be an 8th level feat. Buff Animal Rage and make that the 12th level Feat. Or better yet this could be the feat that gives you access to those abilities the Animal Companions have (Bear Hug, etc. etc.). This feat does little more than give you the ability to charge with out being seen in the first round of combat. But if you're going to charge into the middle of a large group, then they'll still see you after you've made your attack. So a feat to get hit a flatfooted guy cause he didn't see you coming up anyway? this is just ridiculous.

So let's take a look at the other Totem Options, I'm not going to go into detail cause this post is already stupid long but just for comparisons sake here we go.

The Dragon Totem gives you access to elemental damage and resistances, a breath attack, wings, and the ability to turn into an actual dragon. Anathema: is to do what dragons say and not take insults towards yourself.

Meanwhile the Giant Totem gives you the ability to use over-sized weapons(at the cost of being sluggish 1), you become Large while Raging, and later on you become HUGE. Anethema: Failing to accept a personal Challenge of Strength.

Spirit Totem gives you access to Positive/Negative Damage, resistances against undead, a pretty crappy ward against ranged attacks, and a wisp friend that deals considerable damage (4d8 + your CON). Anathema: being a jerk to dead people

And lastly let's even not talk about the Superstition Totem cause it's Anathema is just garbage (in my opinion). Basically, you literally have to play as an anti-magic character in mostly high-magic setting... or be forced to leave the party if the cleric tries to save your life and heal you against your will.

Conclusion:

Basically, all the Animal Totems are the same and lack the functionality to make them interesting. I know they didn't want the animal totems to stand our in complexity over the other Totem options but unless there's a major rework of how the animal totems are different from each other and maybe add some damage scaling as you level (I still like the my idea for Charms as magic weapons), they just don't seem viable.

These other Totems (with the exception of Superstition) offer bonus's and extra actions in addition to the Barbarians other skills. And all of their Anathema's require some sort of behavior "tenat" they have to follow. While the Animal Totems behavior seems more like a flaw than a trade off.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Snowlilly wrote:
darktemplar45 wrote:
So how does one go about getting a hold of my local Venture Officer? or is it just the event coordinator?
There is a list floating around somewhere, or you can just ask over in the PFS Forums about who represents your area.

Oh sweet, i know like 3 of the agents in my area, i'm sure i can get this sorted out! thanks!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

i feel like they really should've put more thought into naming them... both starting with the word "spell" is really annoying...


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ferious Thune wrote:

Spell strike only comes into play after you've cast the spell. It works with Fencing/Slashing Grace.

Yes, you can recall Intensified shocking grasp with a Pearl of Power. It returns whatever spell was in that spell slot, including modification by Metamagic.

As for retraining, I know at the time the errata was issued, you were allowed to swap out the Arcana for free. Both Flamboyant Arcana and Arcane Deed received some errata, so I would think that if you were unaware of it, you could probably swap them out for free now. If you're unsure about that, talk to your local Venture Officer.

I really appreciate the help. apparently not one but two of my fellow Society companions, were misinformed about the errata... One was the one that told be about the Arcane Deed with Precise Strike, and the other was the one that INSISTED (mid-game mind you) that you couldn't use Fencing Grace on Spellstrike... i mean the Magus is a really wierd class but i'm kinda really annoyed i didnt catch this earlier, i mean that errata came out in 2015, so i should've seen it.

So how does one go about getting a hold of my local Venture Officer? or is it just the event coordinator?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Snowlilly wrote:
  • Dervish Dance still allows dex-to-damage with spell combat.
  • Arcane Deed was nerfed into oblivion - the magus counts as a zero level swashbuckler with no panche pool. (+0 damage from Precise Strike)
  • Spellstrike is completely unaffected by anything - it has nothing to do with hands occupied.
  • Invisibility does not break until you attack.
  • The Grease spell denies dexterity on rounds characters move through or within it.
  • Yes, an Intensified Shocking Grasp is a first level spell if you have Magical Lineage
  • The spell stored is whatever the caster casts.
  • There are Ioun stones that can store 1st level spells. What you want are Pearls of Power I. They allow you to recover previously cast spells as a standard action.

You can spellstrike with Arcane Mark. While it deals no damage itself, it does effectively grant two-weapon fighting, as long as you can make your concentration checks.

I looked in to the Pearl of Power (thanks btw) and i'm noticing how similarly it's worded with the Spell Recall, does this mean i can Recall an Intensified Shocking Grasp?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ferious Thune wrote:

Unfortunately, Arcane Deed was errata'ed to a point where Precise Strike doesn't do anything for a Magus.

Arcane Deed wrote:

Prerequisite(s) Flamboyant arcana

Benefit(s) When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. Even if he gains a panache pool through another means, the magus is not considered to have at least 1 point in his panache pool for the purpose of deeds selected with arcane deed, and his effective swashbuckler level for determining such a deed's effect is 0.

A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed.

Bolded the errata'ed part of the arcana. Basically, even though you can get Precise Strike, Precise Strike only works when you have 1 panache point, and you are not considered to have 1 panache from your Arcane Pool. It makes Precise Strike and a lot of the Swashbuckler Deeds completely useless for a Magus. I was planning to go that same route myself, but decided against it after the errata.

You can do what you're thinking for Fencing Grace, and retrain it at 6th when you can afford/have enough fame to get an Agile weapon. Agile should definitely be the goal, as it's the only way I can think of without dipping another class to get DEX to damage consistently for a Magus. It's up to you to decide whether it's worth the 300 gold and 5 prestige you'll have to spend to retrain Fencing Grace to something else (Intensify Spell is a good choice) just to have DEX to damage a level earlier.

Just to note, Fencing Grace works fine with Spellstrike, as long as you are not using Spell Combat in the same round. Spell strike does not have the restriction on nothing being in your other hand. So, for example, if you Spell Combat for Shocking Grasp one round, but miss, the next round you could make a normal attack using...

WOOOOOWWWWWWWWW i was also unaware of this Nerf to Arcane Deed..... let me guess there's no way to retrain Arcana is there? ugh.

And i always assumed that since when you spell combat, you can't have anything in your offhand, that spellstrike worked similarly. it meant that you're casting the spell in your off hand (and following the rules of holding a charge etc.), then delivering it through you main hand. kinda like applying the spell to you weapon as you attack.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I just want to take a second to thank you all for your clarification. i really appreciate the informative responses!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm having a problem printing out the pathfinder sheet. seems like i keep getting black and grey streaks across the sheet making it unreadable


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
MrCharisma wrote:

I'm in a bit of a hurry so I only skimmed your post, but it looks like you're correct.

THIS GUIDE is amazing. Read it (and read the first few posts after the OP since he did make a couple of typos that get corrected there).

For your game I'd suggest either linking your GM to that guide or printing it out and showing him/her and the rest of the group.
It is worth noting that a dex magus using slashing/fencing grace loses dex-damage while using spell-combat since it uses two weapon fighting rules etc etc.
But yes, by the rules written you can use arcane mark to "spellstrike" an enemy and gain an extra attack for the round (although check that one with your GM first since it is pretty cheezy).

I appriciate the quick reponse but it seems like your link is broken. But another bonus to Spellstrike is that if the weapon attack made to replace the touch attack crits, the spell also crits at a x2. so a popular build is Rapier for the crit range, not nessacarily Fencing grace. I still plan to get Fenicn Grace but thanks for the reminder that it doesn't work with two-weapon fighting, i'll keep that in mind.

EDIT: Read through the guide, and it looks like i got it right. i just need to be a little more careful about bringing it up with the GM before the game i guess. and the "extra attack" included in spellstrike is specifically because of the "free touch attack" when you cast a "touch" spell. Although reading through the guide i didn't realize that if i cast the spell first (and miss) i could effectively re-apply the held charge with the subsequent attacks while using Spell Combat (at a -2 of course). i knew that the charge wasn't lost if i missed but being able to apply it whenever i take an attack is super cheese.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Hey Guys so this came up in a society game i played yesterday and there was some debate at the table about a feature i thought i understood but i could be wrong. the gist of it is Can my magus use Spell Combat with Spell-strike to effectively gain and "extra attack"?

Now i know this isn't the ideal place to discuss this but the idea is that with Spell Combat (Magus lvl 1 ability) i can attack with my weapon, and cast a spell with my off hand (assuming it's free). Both the weapon attacks and the spell are at -2 to hit. And Spell-strike (2nd lvl Magus ability )allows me to make a melee attack in place of a touch attack when i cast a spell with the range of "touch" and apply the damage from the weapon as well.

So what i tried to do was take Full-Round action to use Spell Combat, to make my attack, and cast Shocking Grasp with Spell-Strike (casting defensively and both attacks at a -2).

At my current level (3) that would me i make a single rapier attack dealing damage as normal, then make a second rapier attack and if the second one hit then the target would take damage from the rapier and shocking grasp (from spell-strike). effectively attacking twice with the rapier. which is where that "extra attack" comes in and someone at the table was skeptical if that's how it worked. the GM played it safe and asked me to look into it after the game. which seems fair.

because from my understanding of how Spell Combat works, i use my off hand to cast the spell and am at a -2 to all of my weapon attacks (if i had more than one) and the spell. and from how Spell-strike it worded, it just says 'when a magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" ... as part of a melee attack' see the confusing part?

And Spell-strike goes on to state "when used in concert with Spell-Combat, his melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks". So i know you can use both so long you take the penalties.

So if i take the full round action to use Spell Combat and Spell-strike. how does that work? and is this correct?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Sissyl wrote:
Pelor is the sun god. The symbology of that faith should focus on light, dawn, fire, warmth, time, hope, sight, and such. There will be many sayings that focus on how bad things go away with a new dawn, how light can be seen for miles at night, how warmth lets things grow, and how the night must give way to dawn. Add in constant references to your deity, such as "By the light of Pelor..." and "In Pelor's eye, ..." and you have what you need.

Well while that is helpful, but i already had a few in mind like that. I'm also looking for something that sounds more mystic i guess. Like something that came out of a religious text rather than a decree of Pelor's might/light/sight or something.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Hey Guys, first let me start off with a quick apology as i'm mostly focusing on DnD5e with this question, but i'm sure the same applies to Pathfinder anyway and the PFS community is a little more active i figured i'd also get a quicker, more helpful response.

Anyway, So i've been playing a paladin in DnD 5e and i was trying to come up with some flavor text for when i cast a spell, when i noticed that i am particularly not good at it. I mean, i can spit something out like

"By the light of [insert deity here] I feel my wrath!"
or
"May [insert deity] protect us!".

But that sounds really generic and when I'm in game I find myself saying a lot of the same words over and over. So I'm looking for some help with these "invocations" or "holy proverbs" that would act like the verbal components of the spell. Something that i can say in character, and preferably something specific enough so that instead of saying "i cast cure light wounds" i can say what would sound like me reciting a holy text or other proverb or something so that over time both the DM and other players would recognize what spell i was casting by what invocation i was reciting. (effectively staying character while functionally progressing the game). Oh, and it needs to be restively short, like a few lines at the most.

Of course this could apply to any class and not just a divine one. And while i like the idea of writing something up and translating it to something like Latin in google, i'd rather it be in english for now. I'd probably do that if i was playing a more arcane class. And I know Bards tend to favor short poetic verses. But Holy proverbs escape me.

If it helps my character worships Pelor, god of the Sun, Light, Time, Agriculture, Fire (sometimes) and other generic good guy god stuff.

Here's a short list of some commonly used spells i have in DnD 5e

Bless
Thunderous/wrathful/searing smite (3 separate spells)
Crusader's Mantle
Aura of Vitality
Command
Spirit Guardians
Compel Duel
Lesser Restoration (this one comes up a lot)
Cure Wounds (5e doesn't have a distinction between light and moderate)

Thanks for your help guys, and if u have any other advice to help me come up with these on my own i'd GREATLY appreciate it!