Problems with Iruxi unarmed attack feats?


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

So, from what I've heard, there are updates/errata pending that all classes (except monks) get unarmed proficiency equal to their simple weapon proficiency (class weapons for wizards).

Doesn't this then mean that the feat Iruxi Unarmed Expertise does nothing?

Also, have I missed something, or do the Iruxi attacks have no weapon group for the purposes of Iruxi Unarmed Cunning? I would assume they're in the brawling group, but I don't think that's stated anywhere.


Yeah their unarmed feat line are techincally worthless as your unarmed going to scale with highest weapon proficiency anyways.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Fighters benefit, if they want to reach legendary with unarmed, and something else, like bows.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

It's a very niche Feat if Unarmed normally progresses with Simple weapons, but not actually useless given the existence of Wizards, Cloistered Clerics, and potentially other Classes who lack Simple Weapon Proficiency rising to Expert (or above).

So...not actually useless or in need of change even given the currently unofficial errata.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:

It's a very niche Feat if Unarmed normally progresses with Simple weapons, but not actually useless given the existence of Wizards, Cloistered Clerics, and potentially other Classes who lack Simple Weapon Proficiency rising to Expert (or above).

So...not actually useless or in need of change even given the currently unofficial errata.

Ah, right, thanks. Slightly disappoinitng that the only >9th level Iruxi feat is so niche, but at least it does have a use. Thanks for the answer!

Does anyone have any thoughts as to the critical specialization issue?

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Varus Wreckpoint wrote:
Ah, right, thanks. Slightly disappoinitng that the only >9th level Iruxi feat is so niche, but at least it does have a use. Thanks for the answer!

No problem, I'm always happy to be of assistance. And yes, that's unfortunate, though I'm sure it'll get solved eventually as more Iruxi Feats are released over time.

Varus Wreckpoint wrote:
Does anyone have any thoughts as to the critical specialization issue?

I think all unarmed attacks should be assumed to be in the brawling group unless stated otherwise, though I agree that more clarity on that issue would be ideal.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:

It's a very niche Feat if Unarmed normally progresses with Simple weapons, but not actually useless given the existence of Wizards, Cloistered Clerics, and potentially other Classes who lack Simple Weapon Proficiency rising to Expert (or above).

So...not actually useless or in need of change even given the currently unofficial errata.

Because we have only received quick summaries, we have the open question of whether any of the above would be applicable. I suspect that unarmed attacks are meant to keep up with whatever simple weapons the character is proficient with, and that no character will have lower proficiency with simple weapons than they do with martial weapons.

But we won't know for sure until we see the actual errata.

Paizo Employee Customer Service & Community Manager

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I removed a post and replies. This is a thread about "Iruxi unarmed attack feats". This is not a thread about the intersection of errata and business operations.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:

It's a very niche Feat if Unarmed normally progresses with Simple weapons, but not actually useless given the existence of Wizards, Cloistered Clerics, and potentially other Classes who lack Simple Weapon Proficiency rising to Expert (or above).

So...not actually useless or in need of change even given the currently unofficial errata.

IIRC they mentioned wizards getting expert in unarmed along with their other stuff during that stream.

Liberty's Edge

Squiggit wrote:
IIRC they mentioned wizards getting expert in unarmed along with their other stuff during that stream.

I seem to recall the opposite, but maybe you're right. We'll presumably see one way or the other soon, since they said they'll release something in the FAQ/Errata vein before the APG playtest, and that's suposed to be out in the next two weeks.


Squiggit wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

It's a very niche Feat if Unarmed normally progresses with Simple weapons, but not actually useless given the existence of Wizards, Cloistered Clerics, and potentially other Classes who lack Simple Weapon Proficiency rising to Expert (or above).

So...not actually useless or in need of change even given the currently unofficial errata.

IIRC they mentioned wizards getting expert in unarmed along with their other stuff during that stream.

They did specifically state that. And the phrasing they used for the general rule wasn't that Unarmed proficiency would match your proficiency with all Simple Weapons. It was more like "basically your Unarmed proficiency should match your Simple Weapons." While Wizards don't get proficiency with all Simple Weapons, all of the weapons they are proficient with are Simple Weapons. The reasonable conclusion is that their Unarmed proficiency becomes expert at 11th level with their other weapons. I included that assumption in my Guide to Proficiency Bonuses (Google Drive version).

So right now the only classes that benefit from the feat are Fighter (so the claws, bite, or tail will keep up with their Chosen Weapon Group) and Cleric (so they will keep up with their Favored Weapon). Note that neither Warpriests nor Cloistered Clerics get better than Trained in Unarmed Strikes unless it is their Favored Weapon. We might see future classes or Class Archetypes that can also benefit.


I'm still not convinced that the clerics on get expert in the deity weapon thing isn't a similar mistake. But it has a weaker case.


Captain Morgan wrote:
I'm still not convinced that the clerics on get expert in the deity weapon thing isn't a similar mistake. But it has a weaker case.

What is the cleric issue?


Gisher wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
I'm still not convinced that the clerics on get expert in the deity weapon thing isn't a similar mistake. But it has a weaker case.
What is the cleric issue?

It is pretty bizarre if the war priest has a narrower range of weapon expertise than the wizard. Given the oversights in the weapon proficiency progression and weird things like the Mutagenist not doing anything subsequently, I'm inclined to think something didn't get updated properly. As written clerics are the only class with such restrictions on their weapons and that doesn't really fit with their martial past.

But IIRC the class specific character sheet for cleric didn't reflect any other weapons getting to expert, as contrasted to the sorcerer sheet giving them expert in unarmed.


It does seem strange given how the Cleric was the original martial-caster, but I think this change was deliberate.

Sovereign Court

In my house rules, I specified that when their Deity's weapon goes to Expert, so does their simple weapons and unarmed attacks. Whether that is what the designers wanted to do and missed it or they chose to leave all the Cleric's other weapons and unarmed at Trained, it is what I feel is appropriate for the class.


Samurai wrote:
In my house rules, I specified that when their Deity's weapon goes to Expert, so does their simple weapons and unarmed attacks. Whether that is what the designers wanted to do and missed it or they chose to leave all the Cleric's other weapons and unarmed at Trained, it is what I feel is appropriate for the class.

It looks like your guess was correct. According to the character sheets, that is what should happen. I've updated my Guide to Proficiency Bonuses (Google Drive version) to reflect those changes.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Problems with Iruxi unarmed attack feats? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.